D&D 4E How is the 4e essentials Slayer??

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think ideally, the solution is one that works on the current system rather than an idealized version which needs a player base.

That's why I like making all bonuses from X being bonuses of type X. Have a +3 unnamed damage bonus from a feat? That's a feat bonus. Wielding a +3 sword? That's a +3 item bonus. Have what looks like an additional damage roll in a power which isn't an attack? Extra damage that doesn't work with bonuses.

Now make a few +1/2/3 per W/I bonuses, one for feat and one for item. The Archer Ranger will like the +3 bow, the Barbarian with the big 5w attack the +2 per W Iron Armbands of Power.

Yeah, there's other things that I find less appealing about 4e that I've just dealt with. It is true, this is not 4e, its a different game at this point. OTOH you can do a couple simple adjustments to a 4e monster stat block and still use it, and tactically things play out in similar ways, so overall it has the same feel, much of the same mechanics, and IMHO somewhat less of the problems. Its good enough for us to play with, given that I don't find anyone is demanding to play 'stock' 4e particularly. I'll still run stock 4e games, if there's demand, but TBH people don't usually play in my games due to a concern with what system I'm going to run, and certainly not due to a love of some kind of D&D orthodoxy anyway.

 

[MwaO]

I think when you say, "Demonskin Adept", your group is optimized...

That paragon path, even assuming a lack of optimization, I think is the top overall Paragon Path in the game. Triple attack E11, top 4 enable option with an AP, great D20, and the F16 is actually pretty good for a Sorcerer focused on burst options for the most part. Now get a 19-20 crit option, pick up a way of avoiding being blind, and power swap for Borrowed Confidence? And if you're a Wild Sorcerer, you get to pick your resistance(and therefore, damage type you pierce...)

Ditto for a hybrid Ranger|Cleric(who does grant a +2 to hit when he heals someone) - not broken, but phenomenally competent melee striker.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think when you say, "Demonskin Adept", your group is optimized...

That paragon path, even assuming a lack of optimization, I think is the top overall Paragon Path in the game. Triple attack E11, top 4 enable option with an AP, great D20, and the F16 is actually pretty good for a Sorcerer focused on burst options for the most part. Now get a 19-20 crit option, pick up a way of avoiding being blind, and power swap for Borrowed Confidence? And if you're a Wild Sorcerer, you get to pick your resistance(and therefore, damage type you pierce...)

Ditto for a hybrid Ranger|Cleric(who does grant a +2 to hit when he heals someone) - not broken, but phenomenally competent melee striker.

Yeah, that PP is one of the fairly uncommon cases where WotC tried to balance a game element with some disadvantages. It does make it a pretty flavorful one, but at the same time it just begs you to pick some way to circumvent the disadvantage and then you're really cranking. Pacifist Cleric option is the other big example, though it has always proven rather hard to completely get around that one (maybe there's a way, I don't know really).

 

[pemerton]

Ditto for a hybrid Ranger|Cleric(who does grant a +2 to hit when he heals someone) - not broken, but phenomenally competent melee striker.

No bonus to hit on a heal. And he's an archer, not melee.

 

[masteraleph]

No bonus to hit on a heal. And he's an archer, not melee.

A hybrid Ranger|Cleric has Healer's Lore as a class feature, and can sub it out in favor of Battle Cleric's Lore. BCL, in addition to granting Scale proficiency and a +2 shield bonus to AC (without holding a shield), grants a +2 power bonus to allies who the R|C grants the use of a healing surge to (I don't have the text in front of me, but IIRC they just need to have a power that grants a healing surge target them, and don't actually have to spend the surge). Obviously the PC didn't necessarily take that, but BCL is half the reason to take the |Cleric on the first place- particularly for melee rangers, since it lets them pay less attention to Dex than they would otherwise.

 

[MwaO]

No bonus to hit on a heal. And he's an archer, not melee.

As Masteraleph noted, this is a case of subbing out Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore. It solves melee Ranger's big problem, but still is pretty darn good for an Archer - get a base AC of 19 with an 18 starting Dex. The +2 to hit actually affects not just allies, but the Cleric himself, and because it is until the Cleric's EoNT, it works best on the Cleric himself.

Which is kind of silly.

Not really clear why a Ranger would hybrid Cleric other than that, though it certainly isn't horrible.

 

[pemerton]

Not really clear why a Ranger would hybrid Cleric other than that

Because the party did not have a leader (just a paladin and a couple of multi-class feats), and the player of the ranger wanted his PC to be able to do something other than Twin Strike. So at 6th level he rebuilt the character as a hybrid ranger-cleric.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

As Masteraleph noted, this is a case of subbing out Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore. It solves melee Ranger's big problem, but still is pretty darn good for an Archer - get a base AC of 19 with an 18 starting Dex. The +2 to hit actually affects not just allies, but the Cleric himself, and because it is until the Cleric's EoNT, it works best on the Cleric himself.

Which is kind of silly.

Not really clear why a Ranger would hybrid Cleric other than that, though it certainly isn't horrible.

I don't understand part of this build. "Base" AC of 19? If you start with Dex 18 and leather armor your AC would be 16. Maybe you could push it to 17 with hide armor. What am I missing?

This was from a Dragon article. Dragon 400.

It's an alternate class feature that replaces Healer's Lore with +2 Shield bonus to AC and proficiency with Scale armour. It also grants the target(s) of your cleric healing powers a +2 to hit on their next attack roll.

So I got a quote from this thread. The ranger/cleric would get to use a heavy shield and scale armor. Scale armor is heavy so Dex does not apply (but you would get AC 19, which would only "scale" slowly with levels), furthermore you cannot use a heavy shield while using a bow, so the actual AC would only be 17.

The class feature giving the +2 to hit bonus is really sweet, so I wouldn't say no to it... just ditch the heavy armor/shield part if you are an archer or skirmisher.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

ISo I got a quote from this thread. The ranger/cleric would get to use a heavy shield and scale armor. Scale armor is heavy so Dex does not apply (but you would get AC 19, which would only "scale" slowly with levels), furthermore you cannot use a heavy shield while using a bow, so the actual AC would only be 17.

The +2 Shield bonus to AC from the class feature does not actually require you to use a shield, so you can still use both hands for a bow, or as was the intent of the feat, two-handed melee weapons (not as useful here), or dual-wielding like you would with any melee ranger.

 

[MwaO]

I don't understand part of this build. "Base" AC of 19? If you start with Dex 18 and leather armor your AC would be 16. Maybe you could push it to 17 with hide armor. What am I missing?

You get proficiency with Scale(irrelevant with 18 Dex+Hide Armor) and then a +2 bonus to AC which is not based on Heavy Shield = 19. And the +2 to hit bonus when you heal someone.

From Mearls...most of the really badly designed Dragon content has his name on it. I suspect just the +2 to hit bonus alone would have made most people ditch Healer's Lore.

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Now I see the BCL problem in no Dragon content - lack of Dragon content makes Cleric a little more obvious to hybrid - I don't think Ranger's an obvious choice to hybrid with Cleric - a hybrid Ranger doesn't particularly need Wisdom, so if you're going to hybrid, there are better leader choices out there.

Unless you're going ridiculous optimization with Cloak of Courage, but even then, that's a utility power swap.