How long would this 4e combat last?

How long would the combat take?

  • 0-60 minutes

    Votes: 40 60.6%
  • 60-90 minutes

    Votes: 23 34.8%
  • 90-120 minutes

    Votes: 6 9.1%
  • 120-150 minutes

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • 150-180 minutes

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • 180+ minutes

    Votes: 3 4.5%

Asmor

First Post
They each started at level 10.

The rogue and fighter have been there for every session. The wizard has been there for the past 3-4 sessions, the warlord for the 2, and the ranger for 2 of the past 3.

It's everyone's first time playing 4th edition. It's the Rogue's first time playing any kind of D&D. It's the warlord's first time playing any RPG ever.

The fighter's turns tended to take a bit because he spent much of it dazed (20 will, and the umber hulk has something like a +16 to daze as a minor action) and thus had to decide what to do with his single action. At one point I was sure it was going to be a TPK*, so healing was desperately needed and he had a bit of it available to make his decisions harder.

The wizard took her turns quickly in general. The ranger was also quite expedient for the most part.

The warlord received help choosing her actions, but still took a while. I'm not sure how long exactly.

The rogue was a bit on the slow side, though not by much.

And of course, keep in mind that this is all from memory, and I have a terrible memory, not to mention a terrible sense of time, so I could be pretty off here.

*They ended up coming back and doing relatively well; the wizard had her brain sucked out, but I don't think anyone else even ended the combat bloodied.

Oh, I'll also say this: the umber hulk's defenses seemed really high. 33 fort, 30 AC, 28 and 27 will/reflex (don't recall which was which). To put that in perspective, the mind flayer's highest defenses were 27s, and he's 2 levels above the umber hulk, though not elite. Going by the DMG's guidelines, the hulk should have had defenses in the upper 20s. So there was a lot of missing against it.
 

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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Oh, I'll also say this: the umber hulk's defenses seemed really high. 33 fort, 30 AC, 28 and 27 will/reflex (don't recall which was which). To put that in perspective, the mind flayer's highest defenses were 27s, and he's 2 levels above the umber hulk, though not elite. Going by the DMG's guidelines, the hulk should have had defenses in the upper 20s. So there was a lot of missing against it.

Elite is +2 to 3 defenses; soldier also helps.

Default is AC 30, other defenses 26/24.
It has AC 30, Fort 33, Ref 28, Will 27.

Yes, the other defenses are higher than you'd expect. AC is spot on.

Cheers!
 

mattdm

First Post
I hear you. I wish our DM would understand that just a little better. He keeps throwing high level single opponents against us and though we beat them with the use of pretty much all of our resources, it just isn't fun to see 90% of your attacks miss...

The 4E game I'm running just got to player level 2. I'm a bit relieved, because encounter design has been hard to this point for exactly that reason. And at level 2 there's still not very much flexibility — most opponents are just gonna be higher level.

I wish the MM had a few more interesting level 1 monsters, and even some level zeros — just like the scale goes on up past 30.
 

Monkey Boy

First Post
Missing seems to be the culprit with opponents with very high defenses. Here's how our group overcame that feeling of ineptitude.

The joy of damage without rolling or my dice suck; take damage anyway.

Rein of Steel - Daily (fighter) + flaming sphere - daily (wizard) + Reaping strike - at will with high str (fighter) = about 30 HP of damage without you needing to hit high defences. The adventurers vault gives you items that lets you spam dailies so you can have these running for 2-3 enounters if you need to.

We ground down a adult black dragon this way last night, we were level 10 and it was a 12 solo with crazy defences in its zone of darkness.

Leading the charge.
In the other game I play in I am a big fan of leading the charge (tac. warlord). The +5 power bonus I give to my allies to hit the solo / elite makes hitting a breeze for the encounter.

Aid other
Rather than have everyone miss why not try and hit AC10 so you can set-up the rogue to land his daily which probably comes with some nice status nerf for the villain.
 
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Monkey Boy

First Post
The 4E game I'm running just got to player level 2. I'm a bit relieved, because encounter design has been hard to this point for exactly that reason. And at level 2 there's still not very much flexibility — most opponents are just gonna be higher level.

I wish the MM had a few more interesting level 1 monsters, and even some level zeros — just like the scale goes on up past 30.

I agree with this. I threw some hobgob soldiers at my level 1 group and their high defences sucked the fund right out of the game.
 

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