D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?

[BendBars/LiftGates]

Honestly, I simply wouldn't create Thri-Kreen as a 4e PC race. They were always hard enough to balance, and knowing what we know right now about PC races in 4th Edition, I don't think there's a way to do them right. Somehow, +2 Dex, +2 Con, a racial power to use a poison bite, a bonus to Athletics, and no sleeping doesn't make them Kreeny enough for me.

The MM will have more unusual monsters given PC treatments. I'd wait until we saw those, look at the weirdest race to get PC status, and try to go from there.

But if I were running a Dark Sun game, I don't think denying players Kreen PCs right out of the gate would be too unfair. At least not until we know how to do them right.

 

[Hawke]

I guess I should've been clear about my motivation. I reworked my party's DS characters as 1st level 4E characters based on the pregens and some info we've gathered. I'm running a short adventure using the 4E rules with their chars. The only snag I've really had is I'd love for them to face a tough Thri-Kreen as the boss and haven't quite figured out how to make one. So all I'd really need is a monster for them to hit.

 

[Staffan]

Getting really specific here, how would you create Thri-kreen as a 4E race given what you know now? I think I might create one just for fun for the next game and would like some input to try and get them right.

Mechanically speaking:
* +2 Dex, +2 Wis
* Natural armor equivalent to chain mail, or maybe one or two points lower (it appears that natural and worn armor won't stack in 4e, according to the preview on improving monsters).
* Natural weapon: Claw, +2 to hit, 1d4 damage (there may be feats in order to make multiple claw attacks, but they don't get it for free).
* Double jumping distances.
* +2 to Survival or the equivalent (might be included in Nature).
* Speed 8

Racial power: Venomous bite, encounter, Str vs AC for 1d6+Str damage with followup Con vs Fort to slow the opponent until they make a save. A feat might up this to Immobilize.

I don't know if this is balanced or not, but it's a starting point.

 

[Jraynack]

Paizo published that article, so it was Paizo that put out that Dark Sun rendition. Also, two of the writers are on the Athas.org "overcouncil," so I'm not exactly sure where this "WotC messed up Dark Sun in 3e" nonsense comes from.

Yeah - it was a mess. I was one of the originals on the TSR Dark Sun e-mail post (long before message boards). When it was decided to pitch in and gather our collective thoughts together, it was evident those that would become Athas.org was going an entirely different direction.

I really wanted a straight conversion (or as close as possible) to the original box set, but many wanted to rely too heavily on the feel of the setting rather than creating balanced rules. Personally, the feel of the setting speaks for itself and though minor rules changes can add to that feel, it is not needed to start from scratch.

 

[evildmguy]

I really wanted a straight conversion (or as close as possible) to the original box set, but many wanted to rely too heavily on the feel of the setting rather than creating balanced rules. Personally, the feel of the setting speaks for itself and though minor rules changes can add to that feel, it is not needed to start from scratch.

I also want to start from the original boxed set. More because, it is fifteen years later and I have a much better idea how to present this to my players and make it palatable to them. I have tons of ideas on how to make it work to adventure with the SKs ruling, rather than having it be all about overthrowing the SKs.

And I think 4E is going to be even better at this, in that SKs will ignore those of Heroic Tier, notice Paragon, and try and stop mid to high Paragon tiers before they become epic and a threat. I think it will work well.

edg

 

[Sunsword]

I had an idea for the Defiler:

Defile Wizard Utility 1
You drain life from Athas to empower your spells.
Encounter * Arcane
Minor Action * Personal
Effect: You can cast 1 additonal Encounter Power.
Special: All terrain in Burst 2 becomes Defiled.


Any Wizards who chooses not to use this are Preservers.

 

[Khuxan]

I had an idea for the Defiler:

Defile Wizard Utility 1
You drain life from Athas to empower your spells.
Encounter * Arcane
Minor Action * Personal
Effect: You can cast 1 additonal Encounter Power.
Special: All terrain in Burst 2 becomes Defiled.


Any Wizards who chooses not to use this are Preservers.

I really like this. It seems very elegant. Then, perhaps, for their Utility 2 power wizards could get a much more devastating defile that lets them use their daily power again.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

hm yeah that is an interesting idea for Defiling!

 

[Sunsword]

I really like this. It seems very elegant. Then, perhaps, for their Utility 2 power wizards could get a much more devastating defile that lets them use their daily power again.

I was worried that allowing an extra use of a Daily come prove unbalancing. If not I'd do it like this:

Blacken Wizard Utility 3
Desperate for power, you rip the very soul from Athas, withering the landscape around you.
Daily * Arcane
Standard Action * Personal
Effect: You can cast 1 additonal Daily Power.
Special: All terrain in Burst 6 becomes Defiled.
(I'm trying to decide between Greater Defile, Blacken, Befoul, Profane, Poison, or Pollute. Any other idead would be good for names)



In case, it didn't come across, you don't have to learn/choose/gain these powers. Every Wizard can use both powers. If they do, they're Defilers. If not they're Preservers.

 

[VBMEW-01]

Those are awesome defiler powers that I WILL be using (darksun is soon to hit our tables)

How about "Wither the World" for Blacken, it just sounds like a 4E power name (like "Split the Tree")