JamesonCourage
Adventurer
I thought of that, but couldn't this still apply when you're bloodied?
I don't get the dislike of healing surges
In some ways it's realistic. Adrenaline can do a lot to keep people going. Running around on a broken leg, cycling a hundred miles with a broken collar-bone, collapsing after the fight is won - all observable phenomena. I'd actually suggest that hit points reaching zero is the point at which you stop being willing to continue more than a particular state of physical injury. "No mas", to quote Roberto Duran.
But after the fight is won in 4ed, instead of dropping or being exhausted, you're fresh as a daisy. It's weird.
I'm not sure that someone who has run out of healing surges is "fresh as a daisy". Spending them at all leaves you with less resilience for later in the day. It's not as if people aren't resilient enough to get up after being knocked unconscious and be walking and talking normally a few minutes later. I wouldn't bet on them in another fight, but they're still capable of exerting themselves.
Usually you have lost some healing surges. You might be fit to fight, but you know you can only take so much of this before going down.
I have assorted encounters where the party starts looking for a good spot to rest after a fight because the elf wimp is looking a quite haggard (full hp, no healing surges left).
JamesonCourage
Adventurer
Well, based on your quote that Danny (if that is his real name...) replied to, this doesn't seem consistent to me, so maybe I missed something. You said:
If you're running on adrenaline to keep you up mid-fight while you have a broken leg, or a broken collarbone, or you should collapse after the fight is done, that makes sense. But it sounds like you're saying it's reflected in the game, but it's not. The broken leg is not reflected in the game, nor is the broken collarbone. And, realistically, if you did have a broken leg, you might be able to push yourself through it and keep fighting (and it'd be cool to see in a movie or read in a book). However, if you can keep walking around on it after the fight is over and the adrenaline is gone, and perform just as well in the next combat (and be just as nimble and mobile) as long as you aren't hit, then I think the argument you originally put forth doesn't work out.
But, I might be missing something. As always, play what you like
Actaully, that's not true. Dropping unconscious in 1e took time to recover from -- starting with a coma that lasts about an hour and then a week of recovery. Not what I'd call a "bounce back"
If you're running on adrenaline to keep you up mid-fight while you have a broken leg, or a broken collarbone, or you should collapse after the fight is done, that makes sense. But it sounds like you're saying it's reflected in the game, but it's not. The broken leg is not reflected in the game, nor is the broken collarbone. And, realistically, if you did have a broken leg, you might be able to push yourself through it and keep fighting (and it'd be cool to see in a movie or read in a book). However, if you can keep walking around on it after the fight is over and the adrenaline is gone, and perform just as well in the next combat (and be just as nimble and mobile) as long as you aren't hit, then I think the argument you originally put forth doesn't work out.
But, I might be missing something. As always, play what you like
Want to stand on the podium on the Tour de France with a broken collarbone, it has been done. Want to spend several days walking around with a broken leg before getting any treatment, people have. Want to break your neck in the FA Cup Final and walk up the steps to get your winner's medal, that's fine too. Anything as complicated as injuries and people's reactions to them that's being resolved with a system as abstract as hit points is going to leave queries.
Maxboy
Explorer
This needs to be re-posted. its more about the Healing Surges as a Resource than hit points
I love the Resource pool that is Healing Surges
JamesonCourage
Adventurer
Happen? Yes. No doubt. However, once the incident is over and the adrenaline is gone, people don't function at full capacity. That's why that guy only lasts a few days on his leg. It hurts, it's not functioning right, he favors it, he can't walk as quickly, etc. The initial stage of adrenaline is over, and the leg ceases to be as useful in the time afterward.
Yes, hit points bring odd situations up. However, arguing realism for healing surges as adrenaline and ignoring the effects afterwards strikes me as really odd. But, that's me. I'm not asking for a perfect system, and I'm not asking to mimic reality perfectly within the game. I like the abstract hit point system (even though I modified it).
However, like I said, you argued that it's more realistic, and I really don't see it that way based on what you put forward. Just me, though. Not saying you're wrong to play that way or think that way, just saying I disagree. As always, play what you like
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