D&D 5E I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?

[prosfilaes]

That said, we are going to see splats - just not as much as in 3.X and 4E. But I think the idea is that everyone will play D&D, but the splats won't as much be more D&D to layer on, but specific avenues (or modules) to choose from to customize rather than complicate and inundate your game (unless that's your gig).

I'm skeptical. The 3.x and 4E splats didn't come out of nowhere; they came out of the fact there's a lot more players then DMs, and selling a Complete * to one out of every 8 players made more money then selling a similar book to one out of every 2 DMs. They made splats because that's how the game was profitable. If they stop making books that every player has to have (that is, inundate the game), then they have to make a lot more money some other way.

I also don't see much a difference between "customize" and "complicate", unless the first is putting it in DM hands (which would be less profitable). More options complicate things.

 

[Mercurius]

Do we have any book sales charts from June-August 2008 to compare? Can we see how well 5e is doing next to 4e?

I don't know, but that's not what I mean in terms of a success. I'm going just on memory, but as far as I can remember, 5E is FAR more successful as far as the community reaction goes. I assume that you remember edition wars of 2008-10? It was rather fiesty. I know it is anecdotal, but I find it telling that we keep seeing old EN World members come back and say, "I haven't played since 3E but like 5E" or "I left the boards in 2009 because this place just got nasty."

Now when 3E came out people were, for the most part, ecstatic. The last few years of D&D in the late 90s had been rather weak and the game was a mechanical dinosaur compared to the innovations that had occured in the previous 10-15 years of RPG design. 3E was D&D coming into the modern era, and enlargened the community. There were some who didn't like it, but they were a small minority. The voices who didn't like 4E were plentiful and loud. While it is early, I don't envision anything similar to that.

But the question, I think, is more around Mearls strategy of focusing on the brand name and whether that can bring about a new golden era. I think the first challenge is, for the most part, a big success: selling the game to existing AND lapsed players. We shoudn't understate the importance of that. At the least it means that D&D 5E should have a strong run, certainly better than the three and half years of 4E, even if the Great Plan doesn't work out.

So as someone said, while may not see another Golden Age (1E, late 70s-mid 80s), we may see another Silver Age (3.x, first half of 00s) or at least another Bronze Age (early 2E, 1989-95ish). What we are unlikely to see is another Dark Age (4E).

Just to be clear - I am NOT criticizing 4E as a game. I enjoyed it for a few years, although had some of the usual issues with it. I'm calling it a "Dark Age" for how it was received by, and influenced, the community as a whole.

 

[Jester David]

I don't know, but that's not what I mean in terms of a success. I'm going just on memory, but as far as I can remember, 5E is FAR more successful as far as the community reaction goes. I assume that you remember edition wars of 2008-10? It was rather fiesty. I know it is anecdotal, but I find it telling that we keep seeing old EN World members come back and say, "I haven't played since 3E but like 5E" or "I left the boards in 2009 because this place just got nasty."

Now when 3E came out people were, for the most part, ecstatic. The last few years of D&D in the late 90s had been rather weak and the game was a mechanical dinosaur compared to the innovations that had occured in the previous 10-15 years of RPG design. 3E was D&D coming into the modern era, and enlargened the community. There were some who didn't like it, but they were a small minority. The voices who didn't like 4E were plentiful and loud. While it is early, I don't envision anything similar to that.

I glanced back on this site to see what the reaction was to 4e. All the way back to page 650 or so.
There was a lot of buzz regarding 4e. There were a LOT of threads. People seemed just as excited as they are now.

While I agree that I think the community reaction feels more positive, there are some people who feel unhappy with 5e. First and foremost some ardent 4e fans who are not hesitant to decry "the step backwards". There were a few detractors of 4e who quickly claimed that "it doesn't feel like D&D" and that cry only grew over time. We'll see if the "it's a step backwards" crowd grows over time.

 

[Mercurius]

We'll see if the "it's a step backwards" crowd grows over time.

Good point, Jester. We shall see!

 

[Hussar]

But let's be fair here. The engagement with the fan base has been much, MUCH better handled this time around. We've yet to see any really negative reaction that has spread to every single thread that gets started. We haven't seen people dropping edition war bombs in the middle of every single thread. And, no perfect storm this time of ending the print Dungeon and Dragon, and then trying the really terribly named Gleemax to community build.

Much of the issues with 4e was in presentation and that's not an issue this time around.

 

[Stalker0]

It is too soon to know for sure, but it "feels" like a more positive reception overall. Then again, technically the official release date hasn't even yet...it won't be till the 19th that we have the full release and then we will see.

 

[Raith5]

But let's be fair here. The engagement with the fan base has been much, MUCH better handled this time around. We've yet to see any really negative reaction that has spread to every single thread that gets started. We haven't seen people dropping edition war bombs in the middle of every single thread. And, no perfect storm this time of ending the print Dungeon and Dragon, and then trying the really terribly named Gleemax to community build.

Much of the issues with 4e was in presentation and that's not an issue this time around.

Agree with this. I also think it is very hard to base the impression of some mass market groundswell based on a game that was purposefully focused on a pre existing (and very narrow) fan base of the D&D game. 4e tried and to connect with computer/MMO market which is a mass market - and 5e is a reaction against this kind of strategy of wishful thinking.

I think the 5e game has a much better focus on starting gamers than 3e or 4e - but until we have teenagers lining up to play the game I am pretty sceptical of some broader phenomenon here.

 

[reiella]

But let's be fair here. The engagement with the fan base has been much, MUCH better handled this time around. We've yet to see any really negative reaction that has spread to every single thread that gets started. We haven't seen people dropping edition war bombs in the middle of every single thread. And, no perfect storm this time of ending the print Dungeon and Dragon, and then trying the really terribly named Gleemax to community build.

Much of the issues with 4e was in presentation and that's not an issue this time around.

Time will tell as it always does. I do want to point out though that we may be seeing the end of digital Dungeon and Dragon with 5th edition as well.

I definitely agree though it has a hopeful feeling to it now. And I do hope it does well even if I end up not liking it more than prior editions.

 

[Tovec]

But let's be fair here. The engagement with the fan base has been much, MUCH better handled this time around. We've yet to see any really negative reaction that has spread to every single thread that gets started. We haven't seen people dropping edition war bombs in the middle of every single thread. And, no perfect storm this time of ending the print Dungeon and Dragon, and then trying the really terribly named Gleemax to community build.

Much of the issues with 4e was in presentation and that's not an issue this time around.

The game isn't even out yet. Most people haven't seen the books let alone had chance to properly go through them. Now if there was something immediately stupid like the print coming off the pages like what happened in 4e then we might be hearing of that by now, but the release date for the FIRST BOOK is august 19th. We are 10 days before the average person can get ahold of the first book of the game.

Beyond that, fans who were going to rush out and get the product as soon as possible are just that, fans. They're more likely to be hyped and excited about the product more than the average player. So, it is certainly possible the game is good or amazing but it is equally possible the game is crap but we have virtually no way of knowing it so early.

WotC did their focus groups and things have shaken out pretty well, I'll agree to that. I expect to see a far fewer number of threads going crazy over one issue or another, but I also fully expect the 5e conflict (maybe eventually becoming a war) to come from whatever less than perfect designs made it to the final print.

So, while the presentations, the surprise factors, the fiddly little mistakes that were made with 4e weren't remade; that doesn't have any reflection on what the community response will be about the final product.

A golden age for the game? Wow, that is such a premature statement. It is certainly possible but nothing I've seen so far (good or bad) has told me anything about the game as a whole nor its impact on the community/community reaction. WotC has handled certain aspects better but that's about it. The judgement of the game is yet to come.

 

[Pentegarn]

... She has no idea what World of Warcraft is, who Drizzt or Elminster are, ...

She's truly blessed. Seriously. Does she have any idea how lucky she is? I wish I could forget those things.