Immortals Handbook - Grimoire (Artifacts, Epic Magic discussion)

[Kerrick]

There is no double maximise in my system, you only need it once and it applies to all dice.

Yeah, I came to that realization on my own earlier this morning. But what about intensify, which maximizes and doubles the dice? Honest question here - can you stack that, since it's doubling the dice? Or (and I agree here) just make Empower a double for +4 levels.

I'm just not totally sure, when applied to the DDQ system at least, that Admix is balanced.

10d6 Acid
10d6 Electricity
10d6 Fire
10d6 Sonic

is techically balanced against (approx. 70d6 of anyone type, or 60d6 with a converted type)

Let's see... a quad-admixed fireball is L15; a 70d6 fireball is (I'm assuming) x6 Empowered, or L15; and a 60d6 sonicball is (again, assuming) a x6 empowered, substituted fireball, or L15. (Energy Substitution is a +0 adjustment.) I'm not sure how you got the 70d6, so I eyeballed the x6 empower.

So technically, they are all the same (not that I didn't believe you... I'm discussing things now). Dropping Admix to +3 would make it L12, for 40d6 - pretty powerful - vs. a x4 empowered fireball at L11 for 40d6. Given that the former has four different energy types, I think the extra level makes up for the lack of increase in damage dice. Now, if we widen both of them, we get Hellball (L15 - we'll assume for the time being that Widen is +3) vs. a widened, x4 empowered fireball (L14). So...

So would I be better throwing x4 40d6 Hellballs or (x1 70d6 Fireball, x1 60d6 AcidBall, x1 60d6 LightningBall and x1 60d6 SonicBall).

With admix at +3, they're roughly equal. If you keep admix at +4, I'd go with the second choice, all things being equal.

I remember when training up a level actually took a number of weeks equal to the new level to be gained.

Yeah, the good old days. Then they got rid of that in favor of "reducing down time", probably because it sucked to have half the party sit around twiddling their thumbs while one or two people trained.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick mate!

Yeah, I came to that realization on my own earlier this morning. But what about intensify, which maximizes and doubles the dice? Honest question here - can you stack that, since it's doubling the dice? Or (and I agree here) just make Empower a double for +4 levels.

Intensify is irrelevant in my system, since stacking two empowers and a maximise give you the exact same results for the exact same amount of spell levels.

Let's see... a quad-admixed fireball is L15; a 70d6 fireball is (I'm assuming) x6 Empowered, or L15; and a 60d6 sonicball is (again, assuming) a x6 empowered, substituted fireball, or L15. (Energy Substitution is a +0 adjustment.) I'm not sure how you got the 70d6, so I eyeballed the x6 empower.

I think I was just ad lib'bing.

So technically, they are all the same (not that I didn't believe you... I'm discussing things now). Dropping Admix to +3 would make it L12, for 40d6 - pretty powerful - vs. a x4 empowered fireball at L11 for 40d6. Given that the former has four different energy types, I think the extra level makes up for the lack of increase in damage dice. Now, if we widen both of them, we get Hellball (L15 - we'll assume for the time being that Widen is +3) vs. a widened, x4 empowered fireball (L14). So...

I think that definately makes more sense.

With admix at +3, they're roughly equal. If you keep admix at +4, I'd go with the second choice, all things being equal.

But we can make 4 different energy flavour 'balls' and deal more damage at lower spell levels.

Also with the preponderance of Universal Energy Immunity rings at epic levels you have to wonder is Admix really worth it.

Yeah, the good old days. Then they got rid of that in favor of "reducing down time", probably because it sucked to have half the party sit around twiddling their thumbs while one or two people trained.

Well you can always just fast forward those moments, but the key is that time was progressing, so it probably would take you 20 years to reach 20th-level.

 

[Kerrick]

But we can make 4 different energy flavour 'balls' and deal more damage at lower spell levels.

Like I said, *roughly equal*.

Also with the preponderance of Universal Energy Immunity rings at epic levels you have to wonder is Admix really worth it.

I don't know about you, but I don't see a preponderance of magic items costing 2.1 million gold. Your point is valid, though - against one of those rings, no energy spell is worthwhile. Even the Energy Resistance rings are absurd, even moreso because they're affordable. (Yay, another hideously broken epic magic item - who would have thought?)

Well you can always just fast forward those moments, but the key is that time was progressing, so it probably would take you 20 years to reach 20th-level.

Yeah.. I don't know why that doesn't happen anymore. It's really controlled by the DM anyway - there isn't much a designer can do in this regard without being heavy-handed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick mate!

Like I said, *roughly equal*.

I don't know about you, but I don't see a preponderance of magic items costing 2.1 million gold. [/QUOTE]

Don't need the Universal Energy Immunity ring. Major Universal Resistance (30 points) should be adequate.

10d6 = Average 35, make your save - hey presto...no damage.

Heck even Minor Universal Energy Resistance (15 points) is going to mean you take next to nothing when you save.

Your point is valid, though - against one of those rings, no energy spell is worthwhile. Even the Energy Resistance rings are absurd, even moreso because they're affordable. (Yay, another hideously broken epic magic item - who would have thought?)

Well they sort of make sense for deities/monsters with the appropriate portfolios because they can trump those sorts of immunities.

Yeah.. I don't know why that doesn't happen anymore. It's really controlled by the DM anyway - there isn't much a designer can do in this regard without being heavy-handed.

How would applying your strength bonus to damage twice help in this case?

/jk.

 

[Servitor of Wrath]

How would applying your strength bonus to damage twice help in this case?

*facepalm*

 

[poilbrun]

Yeah.. I don't know why that doesn't happen anymore. It's really controlled by the DM anyway - there isn't much a designer can do in this regard without being heavy-handed.

Well, I don't know the reason for the whole rpg world, or even the underlying reasons in my case, but in my campaign, the reason is real simple: the players.

At the moment, the group of three 19th-level characters (they're now level 20 ) are chasing the three lieutenants of the BBEG. The wizard said yesterday that "shadow walk would be really useful to speed up travel to unknown places" to which I replied that she could either try to find a scroll and copy it or research it, to which she replied that "it's not like we have time". I quickly pointed out that they did not have to deal with the three lieutenants one every day and that since the beginning of the campaign, only one scenario and one signle encounter at the end of another scenario (not even a fight) was time dependant: the first one because they participated in a "Challenge of Champions" (from Dungeon Magazine) and the tournament was not going to wait for them, and the second one because they needed to deliver an item that was already in their possession before a specific date. They immediately set out for the next encounter and nearly faced a TPK (it would have been one had I not rolled two 1s in a row for my barbarian's first two attacks of the round - the cleric was then able to heal the fighter and all ended well).

 

[Rockhoward56]

hello all

Yo U-k Nice thread!
Have you some nexw artifacts to tease us , or the new magic? weapon enchantment beyond +25(like shinig nexus)????
i want to see grimoire toooooo!
( yours artifacts from the bestiary are very good!)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Rockhoward mate!

...no I hadn't forgotten.

Yo U-k Nice thread!
Have you some nexw artifacts to tease us , or the new magic? weapon enchantment beyond +25(like shinig nexus)????
i want to see grimoire toooooo!
( yours artifacts from the bestiary are very good!)

Well the (nigh impossible) trick is trying to come up with artifacts that are not simply divine/cosmic powers converted into items.

To do that you have to work within the mechanics of the magic items themselves.

So you could have Reaving weapon special ability (that lets you steal another weapons powers) or the Eclipsing weapon special ability (that duplicates the powers of your opponents weapon, adding them to your own).

You also have a few Progress Level weapon examples so you'll have Chainsaw, Vibro-blade, Mono-blade, Energy Blade (aka Light-sabre), Gravity Hammer, Null Blade, Chrono-Sword, Cosmic String, Reality Rip, Black Hole Shield, Pulsar Staff and a few others I am still working on.

But I always feel that revealing two or three ideas in this manner always seems so underwhelming.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!
I like the examples of the Reaving and Eclipsing abilities. What about the opposite/counter? Like a Banal enhancement, that would negate all of the enhancements on both yours' and your foes' weapons that are shared. (So if I had a Flaming Banal sword and my foe had a flaming shock sword, I now have just a vanilla sword with no powers, and my foe only has his shock power) So In essence you could forge the "anti-sword" to counter a rival's ubersword.

 

[Servitor of Wrath]

You also have a few Progress Level weapon examples

Sweet!

Energy Blade (aka Light-sabre)

Now where did I put my half-golem thri-keen dervish stats?

Gravity Hammer, Null Blade, Chrono-Sword, Cosmic String, Reality Rip, Black Hole Shield, Pulsar Staff and a few others I am still working on.

Very interesting. Will the cosmic string be a whip-like weapon?

Is the BHS something special or "just" a shield made of black hole matter?