Improved Initiative is objectively better than Danger Sense

[bonus]

With Improved Initiative, your average initiative roll is 14.5 + DEX modifier + half level, whereas with Danger Sense, your average initiative roll is 13.8 + DEX modifier + half level. Pretty weak considering Danger Sense is a paragon tier feat, they should probably have been switched around.

Well I guess it's better if you really like rolling dice.

 

[Flipguarder]

I have both... pretty happy about that. But I do like danger sense more. My own personal experience has shown that the second roll is always about 10 above the first.

 

[bonus]

Yeah both together are pretty good though, then the average roll is about 17.8. What are some other ways to bump initiative and is it worth it? What if you're a rogue?

 

[Stuntman]

What are some other ways to bump initiative and is it worth it?

Have a warlord in your party.

 

[-Avalon-]

Be a Deva and get Battle Intuition (use wisdom instead and get a +2 bonus to boot I think?)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

With Improved Initiative, your average initiative roll is 14.5 + DEX modifier + half level, whereas with Danger Sense, your average initiative roll is 13.8 + DEX modifier + half level. Pretty weak considering Danger Sense is a paragon tier feat, they should probably have been switched around.

Well I guess it's better if you really like rolling dice.

Generally, the advantage of rolling two dice is that it's more likely to achieve the medium result - but that's when they are added together. But I think the same is true for reroll abiliies (or abilities to roll two dice and pick the higher one). you might not get quite the highest result, but it is more likely you get at least an average result. If you have a good initiative bonus compared to your allies and enemies, this might mean more than an extra point. IN the end, it's not the absolute value you can achieve that's crucial, it is the value you achieve compared to your enemies.

 

[CovertOps]

They stack without giving a larger static bonus to the die roll. One or the other would have needed to be Paragon level.

 

[Stuntman]

With Improved Initiative, your average initiative roll is 14.5 + DEX modifier + half level, whereas with Danger Sense, your average initiative roll is 13.8 + DEX modifier + half level. Pretty weak considering Danger Sense is a paragon tier feat, they should probably have been switched around.

Well I guess it's better if you really like rolling dice.

Edit: Oops. I screwed up. Improved Initiative is actually better.

Improved Initiative is better assuming both creatures have the same Dex mod and level mod. A creature with Improved Initiative will have a 70.00% chance of winning initiative over the identical creature without Improved Initiative. A creature with Danger Sense will have a 66.63% chance of winning initiative over an identical creature without Danger Sense.

It's not about the average initiative. It's about how often you beat the other creature. The second die roll gives you a second chance to beat the opponent's initiative roll if your first roll is lower.

This simple analysis I did is based on both creatures having the same initiative modifier (prior to Improved Initiative). A tie will be won by the creature with Improved Initiative because II will increase the initiative modifier. A tie with Danger Sense will require a roll-off/coin-flip and is won by each creature 50% of the time.

I haven't done my analysis with Danger Sense + Improved Initiative yet. I haven't done a general analysis with different initiative modifiers either.

 

[Stuntman]

Edit: Recalculated to fix error.

OK, supposed two creatures have the same initiative modifier. In this case each creature will win initiative 50% of the time. Here's how the chances are improved if one of the creatures take Improved Initiative, Danger Sense and both:

Normal: 50.00%
Improved Initiative: 70.00%
Danger Sense: 66.63%
Both II & DS: 84.50%

Normally, it is important to beat the initiative of the enemy creatures. If there are two groups of enemy creatures with the same initiative modifier (prior to improved initiative and each group rolling a single initiative), here are your chances of beating both groups:

Normal: 25%
Improved Initiative: 49.00%
Danger Sense: 44.40%
Both II & DS: 71.40%

 

[-Avalon-]

Normally, it is important to beat the initiative of the enemy creatures. If there are two groups of enemy creatures with the same initiative modifier (prior to improved initiative and each group rolling a single initiative), here are your chances of beating both groups:

Normal: 25%
Improved Initiative: 43.56%
Danger Sense: 44.40%
Both II & DS: 66.10%

I must admit my math is a bit fuzzy now after so many years out of school... but, my logic tells me, if there are 3 people rolling initiative, and they all are completely equal, there should be approximately a 33% chance of being the one with the best roll... 1 of the 3 has to have the highest, therefore, 1 out of 3? (maybe I need a math refresher though...lol)