Inherent bonus to Int and Skill Points.

[Lamoni]

Since we seem to have strayed completely into the realm of house rules, I might as well continue.
I like your ideas Apuglisi. To forther modify them I think that I would have each class retain their base skill points and then add an additional skill point for each +2 of each ability. So a Fighter with Str 22 would get an additional 3 skill points that could only be used in strength skills. A wizard with Int 22 would get an additional 3 skill points that could only be used in Int skills. A character with 14's in every stat would get an extra 6 skill points, but only one for each type of skill. The only place I can see where this doesn't work well is with constitution since there is only one con based skill. I don't know how to work around that. Anyway, I might move this to house rules if I decide to do it in my next campaign.

 

[Apuglisi]

to give you a rough idea...We went through each skill and decide wich abbility you would need to train it...

For instance we decided that with con you can train Jump, Climb, Swim, etc...Better Con means you have better resistance and can train tougher (something like that was our reasoning)
Social skills we left charisma...You can be very charismatic/diplomatic without being the smarter guy on earth...So people with high charisma usually have more skill points that can be used on those social skills...

We dont have any skill that is trained with Str though...But the idea was that, each skill to have a training stat (not necessary the same stat that it uses)
This way, for instance fighters have quite a few skills (physical skills mostly) social characters end up with good charisma and not having to put a high int...

Is a house rule, it worked well for us and characters ended being more realistic (at least to our eyes)

 

[Staffan]

Speaking about Int...why is int the only one that gives skill points?

Because Intelligence includes memory/learning ability, which is what skills are all about.

I hated that i wanted a social character and what did I have to do? I had to put a better int to get skills than charisma...sounds a bit odd to me...

Charisma gives you a bonus to all Cha-based skills. Int gives you more time in which to practice them (or rather, makes practice each one take less time and thus lets you practice more of them at once).

I mean, if you're a "social character" you're most likely a bard or rogue anyway, which means you do have the skill points to spend on bluff, diplomacy, gather information and/or intimidate. Your Charisma bonus gives you an added edge, above and beyond the training (skill points).

 

[Apuglisi]

Because Intelligence includes memory/learning ability, which is what skills are all about.

I dont think I will be able to have the jumo, climb, swim and more skills just because I am inteligent.
I do feel, however that intelligence will help me with more languages, knowledges.

Charisma gives you a bonus to all Cha-based skills. Int gives you more time in which to practice them (or rather, makes practice each one take less time and thus lets you practice more of them at once).

Still, I cant see the relationship between an intelligent character practicing more skills just because he is intelligent...

I mean, if you're a "social character" you're most likely a bard or rogue anyway, which means you do have the skill points to spend on bluff, diplomacy, gather information and/or intimidate. Your Charisma bonus gives you an added edge, above and beyond the training (skill points).

Having more skill points does not make it more real at all...I still have to put more int than char to get more skills.
I like our House rule better...We can have the skills and Stats we want to.

 

[Staffan]

I do feel, however that intelligence will help me with more languages, knowledges.

Intelligence does help you more with knowledge skills, because it gives you an additional bonus to those.

Still, I cant see the relationship between an intelligent character practicing more skills just because he is intelligent...

Smart character = learns faster = more time for learning other things.

Having more skill points does not make it more real at all...I still have to put more int than char to get more skills.

Int gives you more skills. Other stats make those skills better. That said, I wouldn't mind giving out more skill points in general (say, 2-5 more per level), but I don't see how being strong means you have more time to spend learning climbing or swimming. Being better at using what you know, sure, but that's why you get a Str bonus to Climb and Swim checks.

Oh, and as an aside: if you're going to reply line-by-line (which I don't mind, I do it a lot myself), you might want to use the /quote and quote tags to stop/start the quoting of the person you're responding to. When I first saw your post, I only saw the last bit as yours until I looked closer and realized that I never wrote some of the things in the "quote" section.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Personally, I don't understand why everyone seems to think that "the only reason to buy a Headband of Intellect was to get more skill points" and "if it can't do that, it should cost less".

Since when is getting skill points an important part of the item? All of the stat-boosting items increase your skill modifiers (from having a higher ability score), and various ones increase others as well (such as a Belt of Giant Strength increasing your attack and damage, Gloves of Dexterity increasing your Reflex Saves, ranged attacks, and Initiative, and a Periapt of Wisdom increasing your Will Saves), and the mental-increasing items increase the Save DCs and Bonus Spells for spellcasters. But since when is gaining skill points such an important part of a Headband of Intellect? Why should a Headband of Intellect cost LESS just because it doesn't improve skill points? It still increases your skill modifiers, and if you're a wizard, it increases your Save DCs and Bonus Spells. Are you saying that it's underpowered because it doesn't grant any other bonuses (such as a bonus to attacks and damage, or saves, or whatever)? By that logic, why would ANYONE pay the same amount for a Cloak of Charisma? It's NEVER done ANYTHING but increase skill modifiers for a non-spellcaster. What's your reasoning there? Should a Cloak of Charisma cost less as well?

 

[Scion]

Several reasons.

Cha based skills tend to be much stronger.
Cha itself is still fully effective with the item.
And, most importantly, just because one stat is weaker is not a valid excuse to take things away from another stat. Useing that logic then Str boosting items should only grant extra carrying capacity and bonus to str based skills and nothing else, con should only grant the fort save and con based skill bonuses, dex should only grant bonus to dex based skills and initiative.. etc..


Reduced useage = reduced cost.

If you buy a cloak of resistance +5 but it only protects for will saves you would expect it to cost less than a regular cloak of resistance +5.

In my games I use action points, but slightly different. Half level + cha bonus per day (min 0). This makes cha a much more useful stat and fixes quite a few problems in both systems (cha dump stat and action point per level) in a very elegant way.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The argument is:

When I don a Belt of Giant's Strength +4, I receive a +2 bonus to anything and everything modified by Strength: Strength checks, combat abilities, carry weight, etc.

When I don a Headband of Intellect +4, I receive +2 bonus to anything and everything modified by Intelligence - except skill points.

Why the dichotomy?

 

[darthkilmor]

The argument is:

When I don a Belt of Giant's Strength +4, I receive a +2 bonus to anything and everything modified by Strength: Strength checks, combat abilities, carry weight, etc.

When I don a Headband of Intellect +4, I receive +2 bonus to anything and everything modified by Intelligence - except skill points.

Why the dichotomy?

Because when you take off the headband +4 /belt +4 you lose the +2 bonus to everything, Except you dont lose your skill points.(well you could, if you really bothered to keep track of which ones were Bonus skills , so to speak

Otherwise you could get one headband if intellect +4, and give it to each character when they lvl up, and everyone gets two more skill points, yay! although any DM worth his salt shouldnt let you, its Possible, and some might let you do it.

Although in my group i believe we've been getting skill points for our int modifiying gear, but we also never take it off so its never been an issue.

 

[Scion]

The 'majority of the level' ruling still works, and is still necissary for other parts of the current ruleset anyway. It fixes this 'problem' if it ever was one to begin with.