Inherent bonus to Int and Skill Points.

[Lord Pendragon]

The idea behind Int giving more skill points is that high Int = better learning capacity. Later changes in Int doesn't change how much you learned three years ago, but it does make it easier (or harder) to learn new things, which means old skill points aren't changed, but future ones gained are.

Exactly.

In 3.0 it was simple. Each time a PC leveled, if he'd spent most of the previous level with an int of 24 (18 +6 Headband of Intellect), he got the skill points for having an int of 24. This makes perfect sense to me. No passing the Headband or the like. No "quick int boosts for more skill points" or any such nonsense. Whatever your int was at most of the time, that's where your learning capacity was, and that's how many skill points you earn.

If the day after you level the Headband is destroyed, then when you level next time, you'll only gain skill points for an int of 18, since that's how smart you were for that time period.

This system only caused problems in two instances. 1. Creating a high-level character from scratch. You'd have to determine when he bought his Headband of Intellect to properly calculate his skill points. And 2. When auditing a mid- to high-level character's skill points. As the number of points gained could vary from level to level, it makes checking for mistakes more difficult later on. (Did I upgrade my +2 Headband to +4 at 8th-level, or was that 9th...?)

3.5's rules eliminate those two issues. You no longer have to worry when a high-level character boosted his int (it doesn't matter to skill points) or figure out when you got your headband to audit a PC's skill points.

IMO, even though skill point tracking has become simpler, the tradeoff--less worth for the Headband of Intellect for non-wizards and less skill points for the wizard, isn't a good one.

I prefer the 3.0 method, although I understand why they did what they did.

 

[Apuglisi]

Intelligence does help you more with knowledge skills, because it gives you an additional bonus to those.(Quote Staffan)

I meant that I can understand about int giving more skill points for these...

Smart character = learns faster = more time for learning other things.(Quote Staffan)

Note necessary...I was smarter than some other people yet they learnt faster some skills than me, like repairing a machine...Also some people are better and learn faster the to play some sport than you even if they are less smart...

but I don't see how being strong means you have more time to spend learning climbing or swimming (Quote Steffan)
You can be more intelligent but if your body cant stand the training I am sure you wont be faster learning how to swim..Yes, maybe you could be a glorious teoric swimmer but that doesnt mean that you can actually practice it...I know many real examples about that...And that is what we tried to get into the game.

PS Sorry I quoted like that but I still dont get how to use the quotation

 

[Storyteller01]

anyone here familiar with Howard Gardener's work? In a nutshell, he proposed that people have 'multiple intelligences'. His theory is that your mind is actually made up of various level of consciousness working together (spatial, language, math, etc.).

You could just say that Int gives the minds mental ability to learn. You stats will dictate what you learn well and what you don't (what 'Intelligences' dominate your characters thinking). Said headband increases this ability (gives an epiphany, sort of...)

Realistically, Int can be used for the more physical skills (study in body movement and balance, tactics, psychology {for those who bluff, both in and out of combat}, anatomy, etc). A great example is the book 'Martial Arts of Europe''. It shows the geometery (via the Masters Circle, which had been mathmatically calucated in several schools) used in fencing that made Spain a leader in that field for 80 years (until everyonge else figured out the secret).

Whether it is education via a school, something taught through a master, or by simple observation & introspection (argueably another intelligence based skill), these little snippets of knowledge can effect your skill level.

 

[Apuglisi]

And what about skills that are more intuitive?
I dont think that rational inteligence is the only one that rule your training.
I also dont think that having more intelligence will make me having more skills.

I go to college, I study, I have a certain intelligence but there are people less intelligent than me that have more skills than me, same as there are people more intelligent than me with less skills...

Intelligence does not rule everything...That is my thought, at least. As i said I can undertsand that Int gives me skill points for certain skills like knowledges, languages....but not for every skill in the game...

There are people that can grab the concept of something (and learn it faster) just because of intuition, not just simple logic or memory

That is why we use all stats to give skill points (as roughly explained before) yet each stat is used to train a set of skills.

 

[knifespeaks]

A good reason why I think INT should have no bearing on skills in campaign play. Roleplay 'em. (this is flawed, but reasonable)

If anything, it should simply affect the total number of skills you can learn, rather than the actual number of skill points you can allocate.

Hmm....that's a good point I have made for myself there - the flaw is fixable!

/scurries off to the den....

 

[Storyteller01]

And what about skills that are more intuitive?
I dont think that rational inteligence is the only one that rule your training.
I also dont think that having more intelligence will make me having more skills.

I go to college, I study, I have a certain intelligence but there are people less intelligent than me that have more skills than me, same as there are people more intelligent than me with less skills...

Intelligence does not rule everything...That is my thought, at least. As i said I can undertsand that Int gives me skill points for certain skills like knowledges, languages....but not for every skill in the game...

There are people that can grab the concept of something (and learn it faster) just because of intuition, not just simple logic or memory

That is why we use all stats to give skill points (as roughly explained before) yet each stat is used to train a set of skills.

So what if INT does represent a certain level of intuition? there is a difference between intelligent and rote memorization. Just because one goes to college (no insult here ) does not nessarily make them more intelligent than someone who doesn't.

Also remeber that a lot of 'differing' ideas can be found in multiple disciplines. Take the master's circle I mentioned earlier. It is based on geometeric calculation. Just because a person masters it doesn't mean he can plot pathes and trajectories. He CAN manipulate what he knows to improve his skill (how you strike at an angle as well as avoid strikes from the same angle, just to start).

As for using all stats for skills, how often have you heard "yea, they have talent but they'll need to polish it up/learn more/(needs more experience/training euphamism here) if they want to success"? Con, Dex, and Str all help in a game of football but how often does a disciplined team with plans beat a group of guys who just throw the ball? How often do you here about someone beating someone else who was stronger or faster because he knew something the other guy didn't. There have also been dozens of reports of Masters of softer styles (not relying on pure power) of martial arts actually improving techniques as they age (as speed and strength waine). To paraphrase one such master, "I have been practicing for nearly 60 years, and I believe that I may finally understand this technique". This the master said this while describing a basic karate overhead block.

A 60 year old man beat an 18 year old gang member who tried to take his SUV. shot the kid with his own gun (in the arm, the kid lived). There were rumors that the older man was a former bodyguard for a rather 'infamous' world leader. Either way, the guy didn't have the size, strength, or mobility advantage.

P.S.: the event with the 60 year old and the 18 year old only happened three or four years ago, if that.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Must be a house rule entirely since you can't save up skill points to spend later (PHB pg 62). I don't see how this can be an easy process.

It's a reasonably common house rule, I think. We do it. It does require you to use a spreadsheet to keep track of skills, though.

Brad

 

[Apuglisi]

Need to polish could only mean you need more practice...so train more,. I dont see the relationship with haing more int there.

Also the plan part...You can do it without the need to put a 14 in your int...

Again, the master practiced for 60 years...practice was the key not having more intelligence.

But they are all points of view...We lie more this way...Give us more freedom when making a character and we dont have things that seemed odd...Like a social character having more intelligence (because he needed skill points) than charisma. This was one of the reasons we House ruled that almost all stats give points (Str doesnt give any)

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Again, the master practiced for 60 years...practice was the key not having more intelligence.

If the master had been smarter, it would only have taken 40 years.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I go to college, I study, I have a certain intelligence but there are people less intelligent than me that have more skills than me

Dude, that means they must be rogues. You should be careful round those people.