(IR) IR Interlude Turn 5 - Turn 6 (thread 2)

[Edena_of_Neith]

ADVANCING YOUR CIVILIZATION - PLEASE READ, ESPECIALLY YOU, ALZEM, FORRESTER

Imagine for a moment, that we were back at the very beginning of Turn 1.
You had not yet even sent me your Templates; I had only just completed the initial Lists.

William Ronald plays the Kevellond League

Here is what his List Roster would look like, in that case (of course, this includes all the things we've added since we started the IR, so it won't look like the actual roster did, in the actual Turn 1)

- - -

WILLIAM RONALD

Celestials (Planars of Mount Celestia, lawful good) PL see the Planar Arms Race
Guardinals (Planars of Elysium, neutral good) PL see the Planar Arms Race
Earth Elementals (Planars of the Elemental Plane of Earth, in this case good) PL see the Planar Arms Race

Undead (Undead of every kind, good) PL see the Undead Arms Race
Monsters (Monsters of every kind from the MMs, all alignments but few evil) PL see the Monster Arms Race
Constructs (Constructs of every kind, neutral) PL see the Construct Arms Race

Suhfang (Humans of unknown kind, powerful undead, many kinds of monsters from the MM, all alignments) (far southwest off-map) (LL) Original PL 25, Current PL 25
People of the Kettish Hills (Gnomes, baklunish humans, oeridian humans, dwarves, all alignments) (S) Original PL 3, Current PL 3

(The Kevellond League)

(March of Bissel (Suel humans, baklunish humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, neutral and good)(S) Original PL 3, Current PL 3
Free City of Dyvvers (humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, etc., neutral and good) Original PL 2, Current PL 2
Kingdom of Furyondy (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, rhennee humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, all alignments but few evils)(L) Original PL 7, Current PL 7
Gran March (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, neutral and good) (S) Original PL 5, Current PL 5
Kingdom of Keoland (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, all alignments but few evils) (L) Original PL 8, Current PL 8
Shieldlands (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, good) (S) Original PL 3, Current PL 3
Peoples of the Stark Mounds (Hill dwarves, mountain dwarves, gnomes, oeridian humans, suel humans, high elves, gray elves, good) (S) Original PL 4, Current PL 4
Sterich (Suel humans, flannae humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, heavily good) (S) Original PL 5, Current PL 5
Archclericy of Veluna (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, good) (M) Original PL 8, Current PL 8
Yeomanry (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, neutral and good) (M) Original PL 4, Current PL 4

Knights of Holy Shielding (Dedicated to holding the Shieldlands and stopping Iuz, neutral and good) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 2
Knights of the Watch (Dedicated to protecting the Sheldomar Valley from the Baklunish, neutral) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 2
Order of the Hart (Dedicated to stopping Iuz, good) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 2
The Fellowship of the Torch (Dedicated to stopping Iuz, all alignments) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 2


WILLIAM RONALD (Planar Celestials/Guardinals/Good Earth Elementals, Kevellond Alliance, Metallic Dragons) PL 3 + 16 + 85 + 3 = 107

THE TECHNOLOGICAL ARMS RACE

William Ronald 3 (0 / 0)

THE MAGICAL ARMS RACE

William Ronald 0

THE PLANAR ARMS RACE

William Ronald 0

THE UNDEAD ARMS RACE

William Ronald 0

THE MONSTER ARMS RACE

William Ronald 0

THE CONSTRUCT ARMS RACE

William Ronald 0

Level of your Society and Culture, in Terran terms.

William Ronald 1500

- - -

Got all that?
Good.
We'll go from here.

The 3 for the Player Character, the 16 for the Non-Player Characters, and the 3 for the Arms Races are irrelevent.
Consider that they do not exist.

That leaves William's with a PL of 85.

85 PL. Think about that. 85 PL.
That was the true strength of William's Power on Turn 1.

- - -

Your Power advances 1 year into the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and Industrial Revolution each Turn.
This is free. It is automatic. I just automatically change your number each Turn.

However, you may speed up the process. You may advance more quickly into the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and Industrial Revolution.
To do so, costs PL.

It costs 3 PL, to advance an extra year into the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and Industrial Revolution.
1 Year costs 3 PL.

When Williams reaches 1510, moving 10 years into the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and Industrial Revolution, his countries (AND ONLY COUNTRIES) gain new PL permanently.
Countries sized S gain 1 PL.
Countries sized M gain 2 PL.
Countries sized L gain 3 PL.
Countries sized LL gain 4 PL.

Thus, if William advances those 10 years, his gain would look like this:

Suhfang (Humans of unknown kind, powerful undead, many kinds of monsters from the MM, all alignments) (far southwest off-map) (LL) Original PL 25, Current PL 29 (GAINED 4 POINTS)
People of the Kettish Hills (Gnomes, baklunish humans, oeridian humans, dwarves, all alignments) (S) Original PL 3, Current PL 4 (GAINED 1 POINT)

(The Kevellond League)

(March of Bissel (Suel humans, baklunish humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, neutral and good)(S) Original PL 3, Current PL 4 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Free City of Dyvvers (humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, etc., neutral and good) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 3 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Kingdom of Furyondy (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, rhennee humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, all alignments but few evils) (L) Original PL 7, Current PL 10 (GAINED 3 POINTS)
Gran March (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, neutral and good) (S) Original PL 5, Current PL 6 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Kingdom of Keoland (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, all alignments but few evils) (L) Original PL 8, Current PL 11 (GAINED 3 POINTS)
Shieldlands (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, good) (S) Original PL 3, Current PL 4 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Peoples of the Stark Mounds (Hill dwarves, mountain dwarves, gnomes, oeridian humans, suel humans, high elves, gray elves, good) (S) Original PL 4, Current PL 5 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Sterich (Suel humans, flannae humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, heavily good) (S) Original PL 5, Current PL 6 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Archclericy of Veluna (Oeridian humans, suel humans, flannae humans, baklunish humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, good) (M) Original PL 8, Current PL 10 (GAINED 2 POINTS)
Yeomanry (Suel humans, oeridian humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, neutral and good) (M) Original PL 4, Current PL 6 (GAINED 2 POINTS)

Knights of Holy Shielding (Dedicated to holding the Shieldlands and stopping Iuz, neutral and good) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 3 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Knights of the Watch (Dedicated to protecting the Sheldomar Valley from the Baklunish, neutral) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 3 (GAINED 1 POINT)
Order of the Hart (Dedicated to stopping Iuz, good) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 3 (GAINED 1 POINT)
The Fellowship of the Torch (Dedicated to stopping Iuz, all alignments) (S) Original PL 2, Current PL 3 (GAINED 1 POINT)

So, William would have gained a total additional PL of 25 points.
His PL for countries increases from 85 to 110.

- - -

I choose William's Kevellond League because I started assigning PL values to his countries first, before any others, and the Kevellond League formed the basis for ALL my other decisions concerning the PL value of countries.
Therefore, the Kevellond League is the standard for Advancing Your Civilization.
A standard by which to measure other standards, and make new rules by.

If you look at the above, you will see that:

To advance 10 years, William must spend 30 PL.
30 PL, out of his total PL of 85.
Or, 35% of his total PL was required, to initially advance him.

How much did Williams advance percentage-wise?
His countries jumped in value from 85 to 110, a gain of 25 points.
That is an advance of approximately 30%.

Now, that 30% will drop off to a lower percentage in later Turns, because William's only gains 25 points each advancement, but the total value of his countries increases with each advance.

This model, can be used for the Powers of Toril.

- - -

Forrester has a PL of approximately 10,000.
If we go by the model above, Forrester should:

Have to pay approximately 3,300 PL to advance his civilization 10 years.
Gain approximately 3,000 PL with each advancement.

Alzem, with a PL of 5,000 ...

Should have to pay approximately 1,667 PL to advance 10 years.
Should gain approximately 1,500 PL for each advancement.

This allows the United Commonwealth of Toril and Hope Isle to Advance Their Civilization, just like the Kevellond League does (and everyone else, theoretically.)

However ... (and it's a big however) ....

I am introducing a new rule.

Building a civilization is costly.
Costly, in terms of infrastructure.
Costly, in terms of social change.
Costly, in vast numbers of ways.
One does not create the culture of modern Earth overnight!

It is one thing to go from 1500 to 1600 AD, and have some changes concerning firearms.
It is another, to go from 1900 to 2000 AD, with all the MASSIVE changes that occurred in the 20th century.

Therefore, the rule is this:

THE MORE ADVANCED YOUR CIVILIZATION, THE MORE IT COSTS TO ADVANCE YOUR CIVILIZATION.

- - -

How much more?

The following chart, says it all:

1500 - 1700 AD: 1 Year costs 3 PL
1700 - 1800 AD: 1 Year costs 6 PL
1800 - 1900 AD: 1 Year costs 24 PL
1900 - 2000 AD: 1 Year costs 96 PL
2000 - 2100 AD: 1 Year costs 400 PL
2100 and beyond: 1 Year costs 1,600 PL

This cost, can be halved by 11th level magic.

RESULT:

William, must pay 30 PL to gain a permanent increase of 25 PL, going from 85 PL to 110 PL total.

Forrester, must pay 16,000 PL to gain a permanent increase of 3,000 PL, going from 10,000 PL to 13,000 PL (of course, his 100 allowed Pocket Dimensions add another 400 to that.)
Alzem, must also pay 16,000 PL to gain a permanent increase of 1,500 PL.

Of course, both Forrester and Alzem have 11th level magic, so the cost for them both drops to 8,000 PL.

- - -

The Rules above were designed to reflect a number of things:

To ensure play balance (that is, to keep Forrester and Alzem from using Advancing Your Civilization to simply whelm you all in a single Turn.)
To prevent something ridiculous from happening (the Union of Oerth from going from medieval to today's civilization in 2 months IC.)

To represent the fact that it DOES cost more, as one advances.
As the Real World went into the Industrial Age, greater and greater effort was required to create the new reality.
The entire economic superstructure of Europe in 1600 could not have built the Empire State Building, much less built it in only 4 years.
The entire economic superstructure of Europe in 1700 could not have hoped to have built the Chunnel.
The Dikes of Holland, as they existed in 1800, were an Olympic Level accomplishment, created by over five hundred years of labor by medieval people.
Yet today, they are building islands in the ocean, off the coast of Japan, and setting buildings over a mile long on them.

- - -

You will note that I have not advanced the 1881 status of the Lortmil Technomancy or the Shade.
I will do so, using the new price for advancement to figure how many years they advanced over the course of the IR.

It won't be hard to figure it out - I will look at how many years GnomeWorks and Melkor have advanced (their medieval ratings, which started at 1500 like the rest of you), then do the math.

If, for instance, GnomeWorks has advanced to - say - the year 1605, then he has paid for 100 years of advancement, and gotten 5 years free (for 5 Turns.)
That 100 years cost 300 PL.

300 PL buys him 100 years of advancement, from 1500 to 1600.

But ...

300 PL buys him only 12 1/2 years, to go from 1881 to 1893.5

- - -

Now, I expect that Forrester and Alzem are not going to be very pleased with this rule.
However, I wanted to make it hard for them, since they have such an incredible jump on the rest of you, in PL.

They can still advance, if they wish.

When YOU reach PLs equivalent to theirs (which you can only do by paying the ever increasing price of Advancing Your Civilization), YOU will find that you must pay, just as they must, the exorbitant price to advance any further.

Thus, although you might catch up with Forrester and Alzem, you will find that passing them is quite difficult.
It should be difficult.

And no, the Union of Oerth cannot now spend 1,500 points to advance it's civilization 500 years into the future, to the year 2170 (or whatever it might have been) during Turn 6.

Neither can anyone else pull such a stunt, in this IR.

- - -

This is the new set of rules on Advancing Your Civilization.
The Torilian Powers may now participate in the Advancing Your Civilization race.

What do you think of these rules?

 

[Mr. Draco]

It's time to do some number-crunching..

 

[Forrester]

Edena -- I posted a question to you regarding the possibility of using a combination of 11th level magic, the sacrifice of many of Toril's artifacts, and the aid of the Eternal Empire and the Angels of Hope Island to create a Chronomancy effect.

I know this is a big deal, but Chronomancy IS possible -- Vecna did it, with his millions of troops.

And all I want to do is transport ONE person far ahead in time. (Or, if possible, far back in time.) This person would not be coming back. And he would obviously not be able to greatly affect the current time with some sort of weird kill-your-grandfather effect (if he can go back. If he can only go forward, again, obviously no prob.)

We'll raise Vecna from the dead to learn the secrets of Chronomancy if we have to (assuming we could raise him in a stasis field/pocket dimension where he could be controlled).

Can I do this?

One person.

Ahead in time.

Carrying one object.

Using the whole of the resources of 11th level magic and all of our Torillian allies, not to mention artifact sacrifice.

I think this is a fair question.


Forrester

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Forrester, I need you to e-mail me, and tell me what you intend to accomplish with this Chronomancy.

If it is something that makes Toril and Realmspace forever immune to attack, I will disallow it.

If it is something that can be fit into the IR as a viable rule, I will allow it.

I have had a great deal of experience with Chronomancy in gaming, and it is the one thing that really breaks games, above even 11th level magic.
Chronomancy is extremely dangerous to any game - I allowed Vecna and Kas to come forward only because it was a part of an official gaming supplement, and it suited the IR storyline.

So, please submit to me what you are trying to do.

- - -

For what it's worth, chronomancy is widely used - there is a specialist mage called the Chronomancer, and there would not be any such name if chronomancy wasn't practiced by at least a few people.
However, in Realmspace there are strict limits on what can and cannot be done with Chronomancy, limits set down by Mystryl, and later by Mystra.
This limits were, of course, placed there by the game designers to protect the setting, while still allowing chronomancy.

Thus, one can travel back in time and adventure in Myth Drannor.
One can even change the past, so that Myth Drannor did not fall.
But there are consequences - serious consequences - to doing this.

Again, please e-mail me, and tell me what it is you are trying to accomplish, Forrester.

For obviously, the United Commonwealth of Toril has chronomancy at it's command!
That's a given, a hundred times over!

No special sacrifices of any sort needed.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Serpenteye]

The new rules

I like it, even though it's going to stop me from having 8 000 000 PLs turn 14 . It will hurt us far more than others (except Alzem and Forrester) but I think it's reasonable.
It will, as MR Draco said, require a massive amount of number crunching. Take the Union of Oerth for example: In most of our territories we are at 1672, but in others we're in 1500 and everything in between. This is because we have aquired a lot of territories in many different turns from less advanced nations. Calculating our advancement with a different formula for every other region will be a massive undertaking and if it's not calculated differently we will be penalized compared to more homogenous (primitive) factions.
It's the same thing for Forrester or Alzem if they go on a rampage. If their entire civilization will be counted as being in the same epoch as their current countries they will find it extremely expensive to advance the backwards nations that they conquered and that would be unrealistic ().
This is going to be a lot of work for you.

 

[Darkness]

Edena, a question: If someone started to animate mindless undead (skeletons, zombies) for the Undead Arms Race, control of these (1 PL per turn, presumably) would immediately fall to Maudlin(/b), correct?

Also, could the rate of animation of these undead be heightened (to 2,3,4,... PL/turn) somehow - e.g., 10th-level magic, good ideas, anything?

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Darkness, here is the answer:

Any and all Powers may choose to voluntarily stay in the Undead Arms Race (whether they are creating or summoning good or evil undead, does not matter in this case.)
They gain 3 PL in undead, then this 3 PL immediately reverts to Maudlin's control.

Thus, if all the 24 Powers in the IR were to announce the creation of undead, good and evil, Maudlin's PL would increase by 72.

I presumed everyone suspended their Undead Arms Race because of Acererak's Apotheosis, and that is why all the numbers are 0.

But hey, if you want to help Maudlin, you are free to gain your 3 in the Arms Race this Turn, which then immediately goes to him.

I wish everyone to understand again: the 400 PL in undead that Maudlin just got, is just the first wave.
All the undead in Greyspace that can come to Oerth, are trying to come to Oerth.
It's a scene that dwarfs the scene out of Army of Darkness, and is far less humorous.

The point being: Maudlin is going to get reinforcing waves of undead, each Turn, as more keep showing up.

 

[Kalanyr]

Are Maudlins undead still 6/6 base or have they dropped to the normal levels? Considering he is gaining one heck of a lot more undead than 20 per turn.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Turn 6 will not last one month In Character.
Turn 6 will last one year In Character, for reasons of believability.

Because of this increased time In Character, I wish to allow far more posts on the boards.
Therefore, I am allowing for up to 10 threads (2,000 posts) for Turn 6.

Now, if you all are inactive during Turn 6 (more of this Arms Race business) then I will end the Turn much more quickly than that.
The 10 threads assumes heavy fighting.

There is a limit as to how many e-mails you can send me during Turn 6.
This limit is 10.
Each of you may send me 10 e-mails.
Make them good - because I will keep them in my Inbox, and after number 10 I won't answer anymore, to avoid burn-out.

Casual e-mails, general e-mails, and even general e-mails about the IR that state no action and ask no question are always welcome.
It's always good to hear from you all on a casual basis - send any number of e-mails of that type.

- - -

RULING CONCERNING NUCLEAR WEAPONS

We have several Powers with nuclear and thermonuclear weapons.
They do not have an unlimited supply of these weapons.

For Turn 6, the following limits apply:

Melkor: 1,000 warheads (limit of 1 megaton each)
GnomeWorks: 3000 warheads (limit of 100 megatons)

The Eternal Empire force in AnaKeris has 500 warheads with a maximum yield of 100 megatons, but they are highly unlikely to use them.

Of course, as we all know all too well, it only takes 1 warhead to do everyone in, not 1000.

I know Melkor. I have watched Melkor play. I have heard Melkor speak.
Sorry, Gary Gygax, but I think your campaign world is about to get it.

I am ruling that all Powers have evacuated their civilian populations to their Secret Retreats (or at least deep underground) unless they specifically state otherwise.
For everyone knew the Shade were close to having nuclear weapons, and to remain above ground isn't a very good idea right now.

Remember that nuclear weapons can be teleported without error to any target except the Secret Places.
No ballistic missile required.

Special Rule concerning Forrester:

The World Forum of Toril is refusing to allow Forrester to have nuclear weapons to take and use in Greyspace.
Unless one of you fires nuclear weapons at Alzem's forces (you cannot fire them at Hope Isle, Oerth, for it is protected by 10th level magic), or at Forrester's forces, in which case they WILL authorize nuclear weapons for Forrester.

5,000 of them. 100 megatons maximum yield each.

They will also authorize nuclear weapons for Alzem.

5,000 of them. 100 megatons maximum yield each.

- - -

Now, to be honest, THIS is where you all need Elminster to intervene.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Only the 20 PL of undead that Maudlin received in the Undead Arms Race are at + 6 / + 6.

All the others fight and defend as per his normal rating.