(IR) IR Interlude Turn 5 - Turn 6 (thread 5)
Black Omega
First Post
Many apologies to Edena. There was certainly no malice in the situation with the board and no intent to exclude or shut you out. I'm sorry to hear it's gotten you so upset.
As for an explanation...frankly, it never ocurred to me to talk about the board. There was never a requirement that all email on the IR get CC'ed to you and the board was just an easy subtitute for email. A place to plot, plan, vent and discuss. If you asked to be included, I can't imagine anyone would have objected. If you never ask about that, why would we assume you thought you were being excluded?
Edena, the IR is your baby. It's drawn in alot of people to participate and even more who are just lurking and that's to your credit. Now this is your call. Do what you feel you need to for the IR to continue. I'll live with it.
As for an explanation...frankly, it never ocurred to me to talk about the board. There was never a requirement that all email on the IR get CC'ed to you and the board was just an easy subtitute for email. A place to plot, plan, vent and discuss. If you asked to be included, I can't imagine anyone would have objected. If you never ask about that, why would we assume you thought you were being excluded?
Edena, the IR is your baby. It's drawn in alot of people to participate and even more who are just lurking and that's to your credit. Now this is your call. Do what you feel you need to for the IR to continue. I'll live with it.
'o Skoteinos
First Post
Well, Edena, you might want to look at my second post in "Turn Six: The Longest Year in Oerth's History" on the Lurkers Forum. I really thought you had access, because you quoted *me*. This is what got posted at the EN boards too:
And after you quoted me, you had a comment like: "You're not the only one who has access" or something, so I really did think you had access...
Something else to take into account: I have very little influence on the LF. Some members of the LF distrust me (the same day the "nuke incident" happened, my access was revoked and now, with someone sharing information they pointed at me again).
These two factors lead to a point where I was not in the situation to invite you (since I didn't know you didn't have access and because people wouldn't have listened to me).
On the other hand, I can see why you are so angry. I know you've put a lot of time (a lot being an understatement) in this IR. And I think you should have access. And I will apologise. I'm sorry Edena for taking the fun away from you.
And after you quoted me, you had a comment like: "You're not the only one who has access" or something, so I really did think you had access...
Something else to take into account: I have very little influence on the LF. Some members of the LF distrust me (the same day the "nuke incident" happened, my access was revoked and now, with someone sharing information they pointed at me again).
These two factors lead to a point where I was not in the situation to invite you (since I didn't know you didn't have access and because people wouldn't have listened to me).
On the other hand, I can see why you are so angry. I know you've put a lot of time (a lot being an understatement) in this IR. And I think you should have access. And I will apologise. I'm sorry Edena for taking the fun away from you.
Darkness
Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Here's one mail where I mentioned it. It's not the first one, but I'll find the others if I've saved them:
[edit: Changed our RL names to our board names.]
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:36:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darkness" <oni_no_baka@yahoo.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: New arms races
To: "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net>
Yesss!!
I like this IR quite a lot so far. Still, it's a
lot of work even for me - e.g., e-mails, scheming with
my allies in the Lurker's Forum (which has almost 1300
posts by now!), etc.; I can't imagine how much work
it must be for _you!_ Keep up the good work!
- "Darkness"
--- "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Ah, ok. Do you like this IR?
>
> Darkness wrote:
>
> > I first wanted to do that (hence the "quote" tags
> in
> > the text) but then decided against it in order
> to
> > not confuse anyone about who is controlling my
> troops.
> > Which is still William - I have to catch up quite
> a
> > bit first before being able to make informed
> > decisions...
> >
> > - "Darkness"
> >
> > --- "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok! Hehe. Aren't you going to post to the
> board?
> > >
> > > Darkness wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We will join both of these arms races: I want
> lots
> > > of
> > > > rust monsters and other critters!
> > > >
> > > > (Other than that, William still commands my
> > > forces.)
> > > >
> > > > - "Darkness"
> > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic
> Games
> > > > http://sports.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> > http://sports.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
[edit: Changed our RL names to our board names.]
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:36:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darkness" <oni_no_baka@yahoo.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: New arms races
To: "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net>
Yesss!!
I like this IR quite a lot so far.
Still, it's alot of work even for me - e.g., e-mails, scheming with
my allies in the Lurker's Forum (which has almost 1300
posts by now!
), etc.; I can't imagine how much workit must be for _you!_
Keep up the good work! - "Darkness"
--- "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Ah, ok. Do you like this IR?
>
> Darkness wrote:
>
> > I first wanted to do that (hence the "quote" tags
> in
> > the text
) but then decided against it in order> to
> > not confuse anyone about who is controlling my
> troops.
> > Which is still William - I have to catch up quite
> a
> > bit first before being able to make informed
> > decisions...
> >
> > - "Darkness"
> >
> > --- "Edena of Neith" <anora@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok! Hehe. Aren't you going to post to the
> board?
> > >
> > > Darkness wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Edena_of_Neith > said:
> > > > We will join both of these arms races: I want
> lots
> > > of
> > > > rust monsters and other critters!
> > > >
> > > > (Other than that, William still commands my
> > > forces.)
> > > >
> > > > - "Darkness"
> > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic
> Games
> > > > http://sports.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> > http://sports.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
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Edena_of_Neith
First Post
I have been informed by William that there WAS a deliberate effort to shut me out of the Lurker's Forum.
I have further been told that this was done because you feared I would metagame - would give information to the other side.
In other words, you gave me the ultimate insult of ASSUMING I would cheat.
I was condemned as a cheater, without ever having a chance to respond, defend myself, testify, or show that I was honest.
And after I DID show I was neutral, unbiased, and honest, the deception CONTINUED to be employed against me.
Explain that.
Furthermore, it was my right as Moderator to have full access to that information - withholding it from me was a breaking of the spirit of the game (I could call it a lot of things a lot worse than that, but I think you know full well what I mean.)
It was incumbent upon ALL OF YOU to COME TO ME, and tell me about the Lurker's Forum, and then let me in.
It was incumbent upon you to do this IMMEDIATELY upon the beginning of the first pre-thread of the IR.
None of you did this.
- - -
Yes, I heard from Darkness, Kaboom, and 'o Skoteinos about a Lurker's Board.
They did NOT elaborate, or tell me anything about it.
Thus, I was mislead into believing the Lurker's Board was a part of the ENBoard, where some of you made a few posts amidst a general bedlam of thousands of posts.
I let it go, because a few posts mixed in with thousands of generic posts were ok.
What is NOT ok is to hold the IR, and not invite the Moderator of the IR, the creator of the game, to play in the IR.
And the decision to not allow me in, was deliberate and premeditated, and I have William's word on that.
I expect RESPECT from players.
Players who do not respect me, do not play in my games.
MONUMENTAL disrespect and discourtesy, was committed against me, behind my back, and it was premeditated and deliberate.
Now, I want to know WHO decided I was not to be included.
I want the TRUTH about WHY I was not included.
I want NAMES.
Do you hear me?
I don't have to take the kind of disrespect you gave me.
Now, I want REASONS, and I want ANSWERS, and I want the WHY, WHERE, and HOW of it, and I want NAMES.
And I want them NOW.
I don't want - I didn't know.
I don't want - It wasn't my fault.
I don't want - I didn't know you didn't know.
I don't want - I thought someone else told you.
I don't want excuses for why 2 months of my life just went down the drain.
Any more excuses, and EVERYONE on the list is out of the IR, except Kalanyr who I am allowing to stay.
Do you hear me?
You are OUT of the IR.
And you never get back in.
And I never have anything more to do with you.
And, if I could have my way, I'd have you booted from the ENBoards permanently.
If I could somehow convince Morrus that what you have done is a violation of the ethics and rules the ENBoards go by, I would.
I want the TRUTH.
WHY was I excluded?
WHO made the decision to exclude me?
WHEN was the decision made?
WHY was the decision never revoked?
Do you think I appreciate busting my rear end off for 2 months for you, to entertain you and treat you to a good time, only to find you effectively kicked me out of my own game, and you did so deliberately?
Do you think I'm going to let that go?
Do you think I am mollified by excuses?
Do you think I care if you didn't know, or you thought someone else was responsible?
Quit passing the buck. You are ALL responsible.
You ALL put the knife in my back.
And TRUST ME when I say it HURTS.
TRUST ME when I say I can't pull it out, and the blood is gushing out in pools.
And, by God, if you don't give me some legitimate reasons to do so, I never want to have anything to do with you again.
I've been knifed by Gamers before.
WHY do you think I stopped gaming?
Why do you think I even stopped attending chatrooms?
WHY do you think EVERYONE I have EVER known who EVER gamed, has quit?
Because they got knifed, then knifed again, and again, and again, until even the most stubborn die-hard gamers amongst them gave up the hobby, unable to cope with the bad behavior.
I know how it is. I am not deceived. I know when I've been played for a stool pigeon.
By God, you better give me better answers than the ones above.
Or it's over. It's OVER.
I lost 2 months of my LIFE, the fun ruined, because of this little oversight, as you are putting it, on your part.
2 months of backbreaking work and pain and suffering for you.
All for a knife in the back.
BY GOD, I BETTER GET SOME ANSWERS. AND I MEAN TODAY.
Edena_of_Neith
I have further been told that this was done because you feared I would metagame - would give information to the other side.
In other words, you gave me the ultimate insult of ASSUMING I would cheat.
I was condemned as a cheater, without ever having a chance to respond, defend myself, testify, or show that I was honest.
And after I DID show I was neutral, unbiased, and honest, the deception CONTINUED to be employed against me.
Explain that.
Furthermore, it was my right as Moderator to have full access to that information - withholding it from me was a breaking of the spirit of the game (I could call it a lot of things a lot worse than that, but I think you know full well what I mean.)
It was incumbent upon ALL OF YOU to COME TO ME, and tell me about the Lurker's Forum, and then let me in.
It was incumbent upon you to do this IMMEDIATELY upon the beginning of the first pre-thread of the IR.
None of you did this.
- - -
Yes, I heard from Darkness, Kaboom, and 'o Skoteinos about a Lurker's Board.
They did NOT elaborate, or tell me anything about it.
Thus, I was mislead into believing the Lurker's Board was a part of the ENBoard, where some of you made a few posts amidst a general bedlam of thousands of posts.
I let it go, because a few posts mixed in with thousands of generic posts were ok.
What is NOT ok is to hold the IR, and not invite the Moderator of the IR, the creator of the game, to play in the IR.
And the decision to not allow me in, was deliberate and premeditated, and I have William's word on that.
I expect RESPECT from players.
Players who do not respect me, do not play in my games.
MONUMENTAL disrespect and discourtesy, was committed against me, behind my back, and it was premeditated and deliberate.
Now, I want to know WHO decided I was not to be included.
I want the TRUTH about WHY I was not included.
I want NAMES.
Do you hear me?
I don't have to take the kind of disrespect you gave me.
Now, I want REASONS, and I want ANSWERS, and I want the WHY, WHERE, and HOW of it, and I want NAMES.
And I want them NOW.
I don't want - I didn't know.
I don't want - It wasn't my fault.
I don't want - I didn't know you didn't know.
I don't want - I thought someone else told you.
I don't want excuses for why 2 months of my life just went down the drain.
Any more excuses, and EVERYONE on the list is out of the IR, except Kalanyr who I am allowing to stay.
Do you hear me?
You are OUT of the IR.
And you never get back in.
And I never have anything more to do with you.
And, if I could have my way, I'd have you booted from the ENBoards permanently.
If I could somehow convince Morrus that what you have done is a violation of the ethics and rules the ENBoards go by, I would.
I want the TRUTH.
WHY was I excluded?
WHO made the decision to exclude me?
WHEN was the decision made?
WHY was the decision never revoked?
Do you think I appreciate busting my rear end off for 2 months for you, to entertain you and treat you to a good time, only to find you effectively kicked me out of my own game, and you did so deliberately?
Do you think I'm going to let that go?
Do you think I am mollified by excuses?
Do you think I care if you didn't know, or you thought someone else was responsible?
Quit passing the buck. You are ALL responsible.
You ALL put the knife in my back.
And TRUST ME when I say it HURTS.
TRUST ME when I say I can't pull it out, and the blood is gushing out in pools.
And, by God, if you don't give me some legitimate reasons to do so, I never want to have anything to do with you again.
I've been knifed by Gamers before.
WHY do you think I stopped gaming?
Why do you think I even stopped attending chatrooms?
WHY do you think EVERYONE I have EVER known who EVER gamed, has quit?
Because they got knifed, then knifed again, and again, and again, until even the most stubborn die-hard gamers amongst them gave up the hobby, unable to cope with the bad behavior.
I know how it is. I am not deceived. I know when I've been played for a stool pigeon.
By God, you better give me better answers than the ones above.
Or it's over. It's OVER.
I lost 2 months of my LIFE, the fun ruined, because of this little oversight, as you are putting it, on your part.
2 months of backbreaking work and pain and suffering for you.
All for a knife in the back.
BY GOD, I BETTER GET SOME ANSWERS. AND I MEAN TODAY.
Edena_of_Neith
Darkness
Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
I am sure that you knew. Otherwise, it would have been dumb of me to mention the Lurker's Forum to you, now, wouldn't it? I told you, Bugbear told you, and William told you, too. I'm searching through my mailbox right now and as soon as I find the mail that I'm looking for, I'll prove this to you.
I don't find it particularly funny, though.
Regardless, this farce ends now: I disagree with how Edena is behaving towards people that I consider friends. Thus, I'm leaving the IR.
Okay - now I know that someone is pulling an April 1st joke. The question is, though: Is it William or Edena?Edena_of_Neith said:
I don't find it particularly funny, though.
Regardless, this farce ends now: I disagree with how Edena is behaving towards people that I consider friends. Thus, I'm leaving the IR.
'o Skoteinos
First Post
Edena, since you are going to give us (or at least me) feelings of guilt, I will give proof you knew about the LF and had access (or at least, got mail from someone who had access):
Take the following link
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7232&perpage=20&pagenumber=7
about 2/3 down.
Explain that to me. And then, give me a *very* good reason why you are acting the way you are now.
Take the following link
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7232&perpage=20&pagenumber=7
about 2/3 down.
Explain that to me. And then, give me a *very* good reason why you are acting the way you are now.
Last edited:
