(IR) IR Interlude Turn 5 - Turn 6 (thread 5)
Edena, I'd like to take the time to apologize on behalf of everybody that participated in the lurker forum, and on the behalf of valkys. Unfortunatley, i cannot do any more than give my apologies for them in their stead. I do not know any of them in person, so i cannot talk with them. I was not invited to the lurker forum, and did not know of its existance until recently, so i cannot invite you there.
Regardless of their unfair and, for the most part, uncarring actions, i urge you to continue the IR. What they did was a horrible mistake, and, quite unfortuantely, it has wrought harm.
You have put more work into this IR than nearly anybody i've known has put into ANYTHING that didn't end with them getting paid. Edena, the job you've done is amazing. I know that I wouldn't have a chance at coming near your effort in this if i tried.
Yet there appear to be those among us that completely and utterly disrespected you. I do not mean this to be offensive to those people, it is merely the truth. They made a horrible mistake that words cannot do justice to.
Now they must make amends. Hopefully, they will all come forth and offer apologies, whether it was completely their fault, mainly their fault, partially their fault, or they only looked at the lurker forum. If they do not, then I will apologize further in their stead.
Edena, the IR experience, and it truly is an experience, has been wonderful. I participated in the first IR on Toril. I originally entered it with the intent to wreck the whole thing by claiming the forces of the Star Wars universe (my apologies for that). But, it grew on me. I went on to command the psionic league. Unfortuantely, my available time grew very short, and I was unable to continue. Because of that, I ended my faction, rather spectacularly, and left the IR.
I have no such intentions of leaving this one. Edena, I will be in this IR to the end, no matter how far off that may be. Whether this IR ends right now, or a year from now, I'll stay here, posting. Should it end now, I wish everybody that participated a good future, and happy times to go along with it. Also, I'd like to recognize everybody's roleplaying ability, and mention that it was great fun having the opportunity, no, privladge to participate in this.
I am privladged to have been able to participate in the IR moderated by you edena.
I am privladged to have been able to participate in the IR with the rest of you.
However, I am dissapointed at this new turn of events.
Edena, this brings to mind a quote I hold rather dear: "I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him." -- Booker T. Washington.
Even if the people at fault do not apologize, which I sincerely hope does not happen, try to forgive them. Don't allow yourself to be angered by them, but instead, at worst, pity them for their actions.
Once again, I mean none of this to offend anybody reading it.
Once again, I'd like to offer my apologies on behalf of the people who commited this fault of character and morals.
Once again, I'd like to say thank you edena for the wonderful time I've had involved in the IR. You work incredibly hard with this, and you deserve everything for it.
Thanks.
Regardless of their unfair and, for the most part, uncarring actions, i urge you to continue the IR. What they did was a horrible mistake, and, quite unfortuantely, it has wrought harm.
You have put more work into this IR than nearly anybody i've known has put into ANYTHING that didn't end with them getting paid. Edena, the job you've done is amazing. I know that I wouldn't have a chance at coming near your effort in this if i tried.
Yet there appear to be those among us that completely and utterly disrespected you. I do not mean this to be offensive to those people, it is merely the truth. They made a horrible mistake that words cannot do justice to.
Now they must make amends. Hopefully, they will all come forth and offer apologies, whether it was completely their fault, mainly their fault, partially their fault, or they only looked at the lurker forum. If they do not, then I will apologize further in their stead.
Edena, the IR experience, and it truly is an experience, has been wonderful. I participated in the first IR on Toril. I originally entered it with the intent to wreck the whole thing by claiming the forces of the Star Wars universe (my apologies for that). But, it grew on me. I went on to command the psionic league. Unfortuantely, my available time grew very short, and I was unable to continue. Because of that, I ended my faction, rather spectacularly, and left the IR.
I have no such intentions of leaving this one. Edena, I will be in this IR to the end, no matter how far off that may be. Whether this IR ends right now, or a year from now, I'll stay here, posting. Should it end now, I wish everybody that participated a good future, and happy times to go along with it. Also, I'd like to recognize everybody's roleplaying ability, and mention that it was great fun having the opportunity, no, privladge to participate in this.
I am privladged to have been able to participate in the IR moderated by you edena.
I am privladged to have been able to participate in the IR with the rest of you.
However, I am dissapointed at this new turn of events.
Edena, this brings to mind a quote I hold rather dear: "I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him." -- Booker T. Washington.
Even if the people at fault do not apologize, which I sincerely hope does not happen, try to forgive them. Don't allow yourself to be angered by them, but instead, at worst, pity them for their actions.
Once again, I mean none of this to offend anybody reading it.
Once again, I'd like to offer my apologies on behalf of the people who commited this fault of character and morals.
Once again, I'd like to say thank you edena for the wonderful time I've had involved in the IR. You work incredibly hard with this, and you deserve everything for it.
Thanks.
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Edena_of_Neith
First Post
The IR will continue.
However, it will continue minus some players.
- - -
Here are the players who are welcome to remain in the IR.
Anabstercorian
Mr. Draco / Serpenteye
Festy Dog
Forsaken One
Maudlin
Melkor
Rhialto
Sollir
Tokiwong
None of these were invited into the Lurker's Forum.
So none of these excluded me.
Also, the following players are welcome to stay in the IR:
Alzem (he only recently joined)
Venus (he only just joined)
William (he has supported me throughout the IR, and he has actually played the game)
Zouron (he only just joined)
Valkys would have been welcome to stay, if he hadn't broken his promise to me to stay and just quit tonight.
Forrester may remain.
I will obey the rules I set up.
And I will see Toril burned.
If Forrester quits, Alzem can run Toril. I will still see it burned.
- - -
The rest of you:
Alyx
Black Omega
Creamsteak
Dagger
Darkness
GnomeWorks
Kaboom
Kalanyr
'o Skoteinos
Uvenelei
Would you please explain to me why you felt it necessary to exclude me from my own game?
The explanation had better be good.
It had better be very good.
Or, you are out.
But then, why should you feel bad?
You're not losing anything.
You already have your own IR, over there at the Lurker's Forum - an IR to which I was not invited for the entire 2 months in which this has been going on.
2 months out of my life.
However, it will continue minus some players.
- - -
Here are the players who are welcome to remain in the IR.
Anabstercorian
Mr. Draco / Serpenteye
Festy Dog
Forsaken One
Maudlin
Melkor
Rhialto
Sollir
Tokiwong
None of these were invited into the Lurker's Forum.
So none of these excluded me.
Also, the following players are welcome to stay in the IR:
Alzem (he only recently joined)
Venus (he only just joined)
William (he has supported me throughout the IR, and he has actually played the game)
Zouron (he only just joined)
Valkys would have been welcome to stay, if he hadn't broken his promise to me to stay and just quit tonight.
Forrester may remain.
I will obey the rules I set up.
And I will see Toril burned.
If Forrester quits, Alzem can run Toril. I will still see it burned.
- - -
The rest of you:
Alyx
Black Omega
Creamsteak
Dagger
Darkness
GnomeWorks
Kaboom
Kalanyr
'o Skoteinos
Uvenelei
Would you please explain to me why you felt it necessary to exclude me from my own game?
The explanation had better be good.
It had better be very good.
Or, you are out.
But then, why should you feel bad?
You're not losing anything.
You already have your own IR, over there at the Lurker's Forum - an IR to which I was not invited for the entire 2 months in which this has been going on.
2 months out of my life.
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William Ronald
Explorer
Hello, everyone:
I have talked to Edena about this entire matter. I have apologized publicly and privately, and will do so again.
I will abide by any decisions Edena makes without protest. I think we all should, as this is his game.
Edena has given two months of his life to this IR -as well as his mind, his heart, and his soul. I feel sorry for any pain that I have caused. I still feel guilty over this entire affair.
I urge everyone involved in the Lurker's Forum to post here. A lot of people have not been posting to the boards. It has been unfair to Edena.
I promised to stay and I am staying. While my free time is diminishing, I must honor my commitment. I shall honor my commitment.
I am in this IR to the end, even if it means I stand alone.
Anabstercorian, you are right. Mr. Draco, you are right.
I have talked to Edena about this entire matter. I have apologized publicly and privately, and will do so again.
I will abide by any decisions Edena makes without protest. I think we all should, as this is his game.
Edena has given two months of his life to this IR -as well as his mind, his heart, and his soul. I feel sorry for any pain that I have caused. I still feel guilty over this entire affair.
I urge everyone involved in the Lurker's Forum to post here. A lot of people have not been posting to the boards. It has been unfair to Edena.
I promised to stay and I am staying. While my free time is diminishing, I must honor my commitment. I shall honor my commitment.
I am in this IR to the end, even if it means I stand alone.
Anabstercorian, you are right. Mr. Draco, you are right.
Kalanyr
Explorer
I will not apologise for what I did not do. Nor do I feel like being victimised.
We did not exclude you from the IR and I will leave if I must (I do not want to).The Lurker's Forum had nothing to do with the IR it was just where we made our plans. Same as everyone else did by email.
The Lurker's forum existed solely instead of the tonne of emails the other's (those in your stay list) passed around (do you want them to post all their emails too?). I am not participating if it comes to this. I will not apologise for doing no worse than anyone else did and anyone who expects me to can go jump in a lake.
I will however apologise for not letting Edena in.
But although I do not feel I need to explain why I did not give Edena the password or URL but I will anyway
a)I just joined. I had no right to give anybody,anything.
b) I thought he already had access.
I posted on these threads as much as anybody else more than a lot. I did what I could to help. I swallowed it as the Shade got free invincibility for research after being totally wiped out,acererak apotheosised and gained 400PL a turn. But I will not swallow being told to apologise for nothing. I enjoyed this while it lasted and hope the rest of you enjoy it for as long as it continues. If I have to leave I will still be watching.
Kalanyr
We did not exclude you from the IR and I will leave if I must (I do not want to).The Lurker's Forum had nothing to do with the IR it was just where we made our plans. Same as everyone else did by email.
The Lurker's forum existed solely instead of the tonne of emails the other's (those in your stay list) passed around (do you want them to post all their emails too?). I am not participating if it comes to this. I will not apologise for doing no worse than anyone else did and anyone who expects me to can go jump in a lake.
I will however apologise for not letting Edena in.
But although I do not feel I need to explain why I did not give Edena the password or URL but I will anyway
a)I just joined. I had no right to give anybody,anything.
b) I thought he already had access.
I posted on these threads as much as anybody else more than a lot. I did what I could to help. I swallowed it as the Shade got free invincibility for research after being totally wiped out,acererak apotheosised and gained 400PL a turn. But I will not swallow being told to apologise for nothing. I enjoyed this while it lasted and hope the rest of you enjoy it for as long as it continues. If I have to leave I will still be watching.
Kalanyr
(Deep breaths . . . count to ten . . .)
I'm not sure where to begin.
I'll start with this: I feel exactly like Kalanyr does, tenfold. And it will be difficult for me to restrain myself as well as he did.
POINT ONE: WHY DO YOU BELIEVE YOU WERE "EXCLUDED"??
You've known about the Lurker's forum since Turn 1. You wait until NOW to be offended that you weren't invited? If you thought this was the kind of thing you'd want to have access to, then why wait until now to bring it up?
It should also go without saying that there is a difference between being *excluded* and not being invited. The first is active, the second is passive. Did you even ever ask Bugbear for a username?
POINT TWO: WHY DO YOU ASSUME WE ALL KNEW YOU DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS?
This is actually a much more important point. Kalanyr didn't know you didn't have access, and neither did I. I would venture that no one, with the exception of Bugbear (and maybe William?) knew that you didn't have access. Over the last month or two you've mentioned the Lurker's Forum more than once, and once you even QUOTED multiple paragraphs from the Forum. From this I assumed you had access, as did Kalanyr. I'm sorry you didn't, but I'm not going to apologize for Not Inviting You when I thought you had already been invited.
In any case, it wasn't my responsibility to invite you. It was Bugbear's, if anyone -- and frankly, once you learned about the Forum, it was your responsibility to ask for membership if you thought that it was important.
Note that after you stated it was important, someone immediately gave you full access. I don't think there was an active effort to keep you out, at any time.
Maybe Bugbear (a now non-IR participant) "owes" you an apology. I know I don't, and I don't think that most of your "hit list" do.
POINT THREE: GIVEN POINT ONE AND POINT TWO, HOW WERE YOU MISTREATED?
Again, I'm baffled that you knew about the Lurker's Forum for so long, and just now decided to explode.
In any case, was there really anything there that was so insulting? You posted one quote about someone saying that you were "insane, like we all suspect". Your quote suggests you think dagger made the comment -- actually, it was me. Your reaction to Bug leaving was a little over-the-top. You took that throwaway comment way too personally. (I can only imagine how you'll take this post!)
There is no point at which you were treated like a "fool", your claim to that effect notwithstanding. Was it so horrible that *just* as the IR was starting, there was some discussion about whether to let you know about the Oerthian Alliance? It hadn't even completely formed yet. And in the end, you were told -- before Turn 1 even started, as I recall.
And is the fact that we coordinated our thoughts through the board, instead of over a bunch of emails, such a horrible thing? You should see the cool emails Anabstercorian and I have had
. But you won't . . . until this is all over (assuming we still have them around, and you express an interest). I imagine that there's a ton of cool behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing that isn't getting posted here. Because it has to be kept secret, or else the metagaming would go through the roof.
For someone that wants his emails to be limited to three each per-person, you are complaining an awful lot about this. Because that's all the Lurker's Forum was -- a quick and easy way for us to have email conversations with each other.
POINT FOUR: <censored>
Your threat to declare Mr. Draco and Serpenteye "the winners", and have Toril burn, because of OOC frustration is repugnant, petty, and (here it comes) HORRIBLE DM'ING.
We've all heard about the DMs and players that give their significant others' characters all of the goodies, or take out OOC problems on characters in-game. That kind of behavior is usually limited to teenagers and emotionally stunted adults. What's in game, stays in game. What's out of game, stays out of game.
That's how *good* DMs handle their games.
I am going to assume that Valkys' departure, plus some misunderstandings on your part about the motivations of the Oerthian Alliance players, made you overreact. Not to mention your truly heroic and Herculean effort to DM this huge undertaking. I'm sure it's drained you immensely. (It IS an effort we all appreciate -- incredibly so.)
I will assume that you now have no intention of hijacking the IR in this way.
Right? If you want to end it, end it. The "nyeah nyeah you guys lose and the other guys win" crap is unnecessary.
Forrester
I'm not sure where to begin.
I'll start with this: I feel exactly like Kalanyr does, tenfold. And it will be difficult for me to restrain myself as well as he did.
POINT ONE: WHY DO YOU BELIEVE YOU WERE "EXCLUDED"??
You've known about the Lurker's forum since Turn 1. You wait until NOW to be offended that you weren't invited? If you thought this was the kind of thing you'd want to have access to, then why wait until now to bring it up?
It should also go without saying that there is a difference between being *excluded* and not being invited. The first is active, the second is passive. Did you even ever ask Bugbear for a username?
POINT TWO: WHY DO YOU ASSUME WE ALL KNEW YOU DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS?
This is actually a much more important point. Kalanyr didn't know you didn't have access, and neither did I. I would venture that no one, with the exception of Bugbear (and maybe William?) knew that you didn't have access. Over the last month or two you've mentioned the Lurker's Forum more than once, and once you even QUOTED multiple paragraphs from the Forum. From this I assumed you had access, as did Kalanyr. I'm sorry you didn't, but I'm not going to apologize for Not Inviting You when I thought you had already been invited.
In any case, it wasn't my responsibility to invite you. It was Bugbear's, if anyone -- and frankly, once you learned about the Forum, it was your responsibility to ask for membership if you thought that it was important.
Note that after you stated it was important, someone immediately gave you full access. I don't think there was an active effort to keep you out, at any time.
Maybe Bugbear (a now non-IR participant) "owes" you an apology. I know I don't, and I don't think that most of your "hit list" do.
POINT THREE: GIVEN POINT ONE AND POINT TWO, HOW WERE YOU MISTREATED?
Again, I'm baffled that you knew about the Lurker's Forum for so long, and just now decided to explode.
In any case, was there really anything there that was so insulting? You posted one quote about someone saying that you were "insane, like we all suspect". Your quote suggests you think dagger made the comment -- actually, it was me. Your reaction to Bug leaving was a little over-the-top. You took that throwaway comment way too personally. (I can only imagine how you'll take this post!)
There is no point at which you were treated like a "fool", your claim to that effect notwithstanding. Was it so horrible that *just* as the IR was starting, there was some discussion about whether to let you know about the Oerthian Alliance? It hadn't even completely formed yet. And in the end, you were told -- before Turn 1 even started, as I recall.
And is the fact that we coordinated our thoughts through the board, instead of over a bunch of emails, such a horrible thing? You should see the cool emails Anabstercorian and I have had
. But you won't . . . until this is all over (assuming we still have them around, and you express an interest). I imagine that there's a ton of cool behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing that isn't getting posted here. Because it has to be kept secret, or else the metagaming would go through the roof. For someone that wants his emails to be limited to three each per-person, you are complaining an awful lot about this. Because that's all the Lurker's Forum was -- a quick and easy way for us to have email conversations with each other.
POINT FOUR: <censored>
Your threat to declare Mr. Draco and Serpenteye "the winners", and have Toril burn, because of OOC frustration is repugnant, petty, and (here it comes) HORRIBLE DM'ING.
We've all heard about the DMs and players that give their significant others' characters all of the goodies, or take out OOC problems on characters in-game. That kind of behavior is usually limited to teenagers and emotionally stunted adults. What's in game, stays in game. What's out of game, stays out of game.
That's how *good* DMs handle their games.
I am going to assume that Valkys' departure, plus some misunderstandings on your part about the motivations of the Oerthian Alliance players, made you overreact. Not to mention your truly heroic and Herculean effort to DM this huge undertaking. I'm sure it's drained you immensely. (It IS an effort we all appreciate -- incredibly so.)
I will assume that you now have no intention of hijacking the IR in this way.
Right? If you want to end it, end it. The "nyeah nyeah you guys lose and the other guys win" crap is unnecessary.
Forrester
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Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Forrester ...
Kaboom ...
Good-bye.
- - -
Kalanyr, you are welcome to stay in the IR.
Kaboom ...
Good-bye.
- - -
Kalanyr, you are welcome to stay in the IR.
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