D&D (2024) Is Magical Cunning enough? (Warlock P7)

[niklinna]

Several people have pointed out that their main concern is having to blow your max-level spell slots on things that don't need max-level spell slots, largely for spells that don't scale up. (This is one of the things about the Warlock class I've always found particularly janky.) Pact of the Tome now granting a single 1st-level spell slot reflects that, and reflects a path that gains you more spell slots...but it's a very short path! Maybe follow-on invocations that grant a 2nd-level spell slot, etc., or uplevel the Tome slot, would help? Kinda like the last playtest Warlock's Mystic Arcanum but only for lower-level slots.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

 

[Scribe]

I think the elegant solution is to tie race/ancestry/lineage based abilities to short rests. Then everyone has at least some incentive to take them.

Now we are talking.

 

[Charlaquin]

Several people have pointed out that their main concern is having to blow your max-level spell slots on things that don't need max-level spell slots, largely for spells that don't scale up. (This is one of the things about the Warlock class I've always found particularly janky.) Pact of the Tome now granting a single 1st-level spell slot reflects that, and reflects a path that gains you more spells...but it's a very short path! Maybe follow-on invocations that grant a 2nd-level spell slot, etc., or uplevel the Tome slot, would help? Kinda like the last playtest Warlock's Mystic Arcanum but only for lower-level slots.

I’ve been thinking along very much the same lines!

 

[CleverNickName]

Now we are talking.

I’ve been thinking along very much the same lines!

Same here. I've been mulling over warlocks having one spell slot per spell level, with a Recharge counter.

 

[niklinna]

Same here. I've been mulling over warlocks having one spell slot per spell level, with a Recharge counter.

How would the recharge counter work?

 

[CleverNickName]

How would the recharge counter work?

Something like this, from another thread:

Right now I'm kicking around the idea of using the Recharge mechanic to balance out the class features and spells. It's still in the development stages, with lots of tweaking and adjustments, but it goes a little bit like this:

• A "Recharge die" is an unmodified d8.
• You roll it at the end of your turn.

For spells and spellcasting:

• Spellcasters have one spell slot per spell level. So a 5th level cleric would have one 1st level spell slot, one 2nd level spell slot, and one 3rd level spell slot, for example.
• The Recharge number for a spell slot is equal to its spell level.
• When you cast a 3rd level spell, you can't cast any more 3rd level spells until you roll a 3 or higher on your Recharge die. If you want to cast Fireball again, for example, you will have to spend your 4th level spell slot, or wait for your 3rd level slot to Recharge.
• Each Reset roll applies to only one spell level. If you have multiple spell levels that are depleted, you choose which one Recharges.
• The Arcane Recovery class feature lets you Recharge all of your spell levels once per long rest as an Action.
• All spell slots automatically Recharge after a Long Rest.
• Cantrips are considered "level zero" for the purpose of this rule, and they automatically recharge at the end of your turn--no need to roll.
• 9th level spells effectively become "once per day" spells under this rule (you can't roll a 9 on an unmodified d8). This is a feature and not a bug.

For other abilities and features:

• The Recharge number for most features is equal to their equivalent spell level. A Tiefling's Hellish Rebuke ability, for example, has a Recharge 1 since it's a 1st level spell.
• The Recharge number for non-spell abilities and features is (8 - Ability modifier, minimum 2). A dragonborn with a Con score of 17 (+3) would have a Recharge 5, for example...after using their breath weapon, they cannot use it again until they roll a 5 or lower on a d8.
• If that dragonborn is also a sorcerer, and he has been waiting for his 5th level spell slot to recharge for three rounds before he finally rolled a 2, he has to decide if he wants his breath weapon or his spell slot to recharge that round.

Anyway, it's a work in progress. But the more I tinker with it, the more I like it.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Something like this, from another thread:
Right now I'm kicking around the idea of using the Recharge mechanic to balance out the class features and spells. It's still in the development stages, with lots of tweaking and adjustments, but it goes a little bit like this:

• A "Recharge die" is an unmodified d8.
• You roll it at the end of your turn.

I'll be going down a logic rabbit hole, so correct me if I'm not getting this right.

So if you roll the Recharge die at the end of your turn, the moment you aren't in danger you can just keep on rolling every turn until everything is recharged? If that is the case, then rather than go through the motions of rolling for a couple of minutes, everything should recharge after 5-10 minutes, like a 4E short rest. Which means everything effectively becomes an Encounter power?

Which means the Recharge die mechanic you're suggesting is really only necessary during a fight if people want to regain powers during a danger time. Because fights are so short, and there are so many powers to choose from during a fight, people would likely only use their best powers during a fight. If that best power recharges then why ever use a different power?

If everything was an Encounter power, I'd just let them be Encounter powers and balance them to that effect, rather than let them be rechargable. Actually, if it works that way I guess I don't really like the idea of spamming rechargeable 8th level spells every encounter. I don't know what kinds of powers nonmagical characters are supposed to have that can compare to a caster's higher level spells.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'll be going down a logic rabbit hole, so correct me if I'm not getting this right.

So if you roll the Recharge die at the end of your turn, the moment you aren't in danger you can just keep on rolling every turn until everything is recharged? If that is the case, then rather than go through the motions of rolling for a couple of minutes, everything should recharge after 5-10 minutes, like a 4E short rest. Which means everything effectively becomes an Encounter power?

Which means the Recharge die mechanic you're suggesting is really only necessary during a fight if people want to regain powers during a danger time. Because fights are so short, and there are so many powers to choose from during a fight, people would likely only use their best powers during a fight. If that best power recharges then why ever use a different power?

If everything was an Encounter power, I'd just let them be Encounter powers and balance them to that effect, rather than let them be rechargable. Actually, if it works that way I guess I don't really like the idea of spamming rechargeable 8th level spells every encounter. I don't know what kinds of powers nonmagical characters are supposed to have that can compare to a caster's higher level spells.

Well like I said, it's still a work in progress. I haven't quite figured out how to deal with the "everything resets to 100% after every battle" aspect of it, but it certainly does need to be dealt with. (Or not, depending on how you want the game to run. I'd prefer some kind of lasting attrition.)

 

[niklinna]

Interesting idea, adds a kind of uncertainty to PC spells that D&D has generally lacked.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Am I missing something or can you have all 3 Pact invocations (Blade, Chain &Tome) at 2nd level? It's like they decided spells are secondary to the invocations and "gished up" the warlock.

"Look, you have a Cha-based magic weapon that can do physical/necrotic/psychic/radiant, a supernatural pet that can actually do some damage, you can learn all the rituals, have one of the best combat cantrips and can pick 3 cantrips from any class, one 1st level spell to trigger Hex, Patron buffs like Dreadful Misty Step you can use Cha times per day, and you get 2-3 full power spell slots. Be a happy little gish."

And I note that Celestial Resilience makes short rests benefit the whole party by giving 5 characters (Cha) temp hp, like a weaker version of Aid.