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D&D 5E Is Warlock broken?

Hex is quite probably the most overrated spell in the game and should not be used so prolifically. I have played many Warlocks and only one has even taken that spell - that character makes use of it in about 25% of the fights he partakes in with a spare spell slot.
Hex is only questionable during the first few levels. Once you have it up to 8 hour duration, you can cast it before a short rest and then keep it up unless you need concentration for something else. At least, as far as I can tell.

The Warlock's access to several powerful and reliable temporary hit point bestowing abilities alone make it a top tier tank, but the Devil's Sight/Darkness combination easily secures it first place in that field. Even the average Barbarian is absolutely humbled by the tanking prowess of the mighty Warlock.
I'll grant that the Warlock is hard to hit while standing in Darkness, but why would any enemy oblige if there are other targets available? The two important jobs of the tank are that you can take a hit, and that enemies want to attack you. Otherwise, you're just a cannon that happens to be made from steel rather than glass.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
One of the things I was really looking forward to! I don't really like micromanaging a lot of things...I like smart, tricky characters, and I like arcane themes, but have never played a Wizard in previous editions because I didn't care for all the fiddly math of spell slots and such. Having at-will abilities, and "encounter" abilities (so long as they don't come off as "video-gamey" as 4E) would be my cup of tea.

Part of the problem was that I needed at least one invocation for EB, because that's the one thing I could (and was expected to) do. I needed another for my Tome abilities, thinking that would be the quickest way to add the most to my versatility, which instead ended up being redundant and seldom used. This "tax" kept me from picking some of the more fun abilities I otherwise would have snatched up.

Given a long enough timeline I would have picked up more, and lusted greedily at my future build full of so many neat tricks I could pull off...I'd never be as powerful as a Wizard, but what few things I had mastered I knew I could do reliably whenever I wanted. It just didn't work out as well as I had hoped?
What invocations did you plan to take, and which ones did you actually get to?
 

Xeviat

Hero
I'll grant that the Warlock is hard to hit while standing in Darkness, but why would any enemy oblige if there are other targets available? The two important jobs of the tank are that you can take a hit, and that enemies want to attack you. Otherwise, you're just a cannon that happens to be made from steel rather than glass.

Who is the enemy targetting while standing in darkness with the Warlock? Though the Warlock is going to want the Sentinel feat to help keep people from running away.
 

Psikerlord#

Explorer
Ranger is a favorite topic to discuss, especially Beastmaster. We've seen several UA revisions and far more fan "fixes". Most of the other classes seem all right, or at least seldom discussed.

But what about Warlock? Everyone agrees that a two-level dip is OP for CHA classes, but beyond that, how does everyone feel at this point about the full twenty-level class?

I've played one for a number of levels, and was left unsatisfied. With only two spell slots, one was always needed for Hex and the other saved for an emergency. Concentration was almost always tied up with Hex, taking away many of your options. Instead of your most thematic spells coming automatically, as is the case with Cleric domains, they are instead choices to be made...further limiting you, when your tight number of spells are already highly restrictive.

The short rest mechanic has already been discussed as problematic. It's seldom to see 6-8 encounters in a day. With 1-2 significant events, the "5 minute workday" classes have a huge edge. Unless the DM forces the group onward, any time the group has time to stop they'll push for a full rest instead of a short one. If you have time for one hour, you usually have time for seven more. And even though they were unwise to waste their abilities too soon, those classes are often not punished for this...if you were to push them onward, you would be risking a TPK, so as a group you have to fall back or rest.

The punishment seems harsher for you as well. Without Wildshapes Moon Druids still have full spellcasting and Battlemaster Fighters when out of maneuvers still have four attacks in plate mail, but without spells you're left with nothing but Eldritch Blast and a few Invocations (some likely also tied to EB). If you do pick up a short rest, you'll regain at most two spells. But the party Wizard likely will as well with his Arcane Recovery, reducing the "cool factor" of your main class ability.

Tomelocks are interesting due to their number of rituals, but in all likelihood you'll already have the more popular Cleric and Wizard classes in the party already, making this redundant. At best you can pick up a few niche abilities that fall through others' cracks, instead of you becoming a master of forbidden magic.

Chainlocks suffer some of the same problems as Beastmasters in having to sacrifice their action to allow their pet to attack. They're hindered further by their pet being weaker, and by Find Familiar being a ritual open to Tomelocks or anyone via feat, giving others a large amount of what they'd otherwise receive.

Bladelocks were an early attempt to create an arcane gish, but with the SCAG cantrips now available anyone can pick these up with cantrip selections or a feat. That combined with their lack of armor makes them less effective than many other possible builds.

It seems that the only "correct" way to play a Warlock is to play something else instead. If you want to play a dark magician, take two levels then Shadow Sorcerer 18. If you want to play a Hexblade, start Paladin, dip a few levels for your Pact Magic and cool summon blade, then break that oath and continue on with your melee class. If you want to be a mind-taker then Mystic is coming (complete with Far Realms influence!), or refluff Lore Bard after you pick up EB for your attack. If you just want to be questionably evil, fluff that up with RP or take Initiate (Warlock) for a few flavor spells.

Before you comment, I know the only "correct" way is the way that's most fun. But Warlock as designed has problems that keep it from being fun. In combat you're almost always spamming EB because there's little reason not to. You have few other options, and you're at-will option is one of the best. In-game I attempted to disguise myself as a magician, but the party was suspicious when I never actually cast any spells? The reason being that as a player, I never could afford to...I needed to conserve my precious slots, because more often than not I only had two for the entire day. The ONLY trick I had was EB, and it was so nice others were wanting to take the level dip to have what I had plus everything else from their own class. I made it to Level 6, still only halfway until I got another spell for the day, while the party Wizard was already casting TEN spells, three at the highest level, with multiple in a single combat knowing a rest would likely be coming soon.

The other problem, though this is more of a DM one, is I've only seen one DM that really played up the Patron angle? In a class so dripping with flavor, people treat dipping here as common as picking up a little martial training (i.e. Fighter) instead of literally selling your soul to an actual devil. Along with perhaps Paladin, this should be one of the most RP-heavy classes due to it's very nature.

Has anyone else tried playing a straight Warlock 20? How does it stand against your Bladesingers or Mystics or Shadow Sorcerers now that the newer options and UA playtests are starting to appear? Has power creep completely outdated this class, and what should be done to make this a viable option? Is anything needed here, similar to saving the Beastmaster Ranger, or should it be left to stand as-is?

I believe it is the division of short rest based classes, and long rest based classes, that is broken balance wise, as opposed to the warlock specifically, although the warlock is the classic short rest class.

I disagree about if you can take a 1 hour rest, you can take 8 hours, we often don't find that in practice. What we have seen is, if the adventure allows for short rests but not long rests (eg dungeon), the short rest guys dominate. If on the other hand long rests come easy, eg wilderness or city adventure, the long resters dominate. The number of encounters per day is also a big deal.

There is a fundamental class balance problem due to different power reset times. Sometimes the warlock suffers for this, other times it is to their advantage.
 

Who is the enemy targetting while standing in darkness with the Warlock? Though the Warlock is going to want the Sentinel feat to help keep people from running away.
Usually the Barbarian, in my experience. There's no good reason why anyone would attack the Warlock, especially given Disadvantage to do so, and the inability of the Warlock to make a (meaningful) opportunity attack if the monster just walks away.

I won't speak to how the situation changes once you introduce feats, though. Feats are known to be broken and overpowered.
 

Amrûnril

Adventurer
Hex is only questionable during the first few levels. Once you have it up to 8 hour duration, you can cast it before a short rest and then keep it up unless you need concentration for something else. At least, as far as I can tell.

This is very much dependent on your DM. The spell requires a target, and while there's nothing explicitly stopping you from hexing a bug and squashing it so that you can move the spell to a real enemy later, some DMs would regard this as exploiting a loophole rather than taking advantage of an intended feature.
 

This is very much dependent on your DM. The spell requires a target, and while there's nothing explicitly stopping you from hexing a bug and squashing it so that you can move the spell to a real enemy later, some DMs would regard this as exploiting a loophole rather than taking advantage of an intended feature.
Given how relaxed the rest of the system is, I think it's only a technicality that it should require a target; it seems like the intent is that you should be able to just cast it whenever.

But point taken. You might have to actually use the spell in an early combat, and just have it persist naturally through your next short rest, in order to benefit from it while still having all of your spell slots open.
 

Xeviat

Hero
But I mean how are they targetting someone in darkness? Since we're talking about gearing a warlock up for tanking, a Sentinel speed stopping OA or a War Caster+Crossbow Expert Eldritch Blast to the face is a pretty meaningful OA.

But you're discounting feats. I don't think they're broken and overpowered, they just add options that the core game is sorely lacking.

Without feats, even if the monster is just going to target someone else, having Darkness to grant granting disadvantage to that attack is a pretty tanky ability. The Protection fighting style does a similar thing. Also, if they're targetting the Barbarian, what do they care? The barbarian in the game I'm running gets mad when things don't target him because he's counting on that to save the party damage (what with his resistance to most everything).

Then again, we're arguing about a really off use of the class. Used for standard Blasting or Control, they're a good class as long as you can get in those 2 short rests a day. At first level, with 2 short rests, they have 3 first level spells per day, just like a Wizard (wizard has 2 plus 1 from a short rest). At second level, with 2 short rests, they have 6 first level spells per day; the wizard has 4. At 3rd level, they have 6 second level spells per day; the wizard has (at best) 3 level 2 and 4 level 1 ... past this point, they become very hard to compare. That's not counting what they can do with their invocations.

I think they're okay. I like that they're different.
 



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