D&D 5E Is Warlock broken?

Mephista

Adventurer
I'm sure there are. But what is the context?
The context is "OP, you're not alone in noticing this issue." Yesh. Its like people want to shout down any dissenting voice simply for not following the group mind here.

The Dallas Cowboys are highly controversial. Not sure a relatively small group of people getting worked up over the warlock class features classifies as that.
Really? Semantics? First of all, if you complain I can't say "lots" because its too subjective without official numbers, you can't say "relatively small" either. That's hypocritical. Two, controversial just means there's disagreements about something. *Shakes head* Well, if you wanted to shout me down, congrats, it worked, I'm done. Good bye.
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
The context is "OP, you're not alone in noticing this issue." Yesh. Its like people want to shout down any dissenting voice simply for not following the group mind here.

Really? Semantics? First of all, if you complain I can't say "lots" because its too subjective without official numbers, you can't say "relatively small" either. That's hypocritical. Two, controversial just means there's disagreements about something. *Shakes head* Well, if you wanted to shout me down, congrats, it worked, I'm done. Good bye.

Oh please. I'm not shutting down your free speech or inferring that your opinion somehow doesn't matter. You can stop with the persecution complex. But if you're going to make claims, then I'd hope you'd be able to support them. Maybe you are part of a minority that feels that way, and that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. There's nothing wrong with saying "this doesn't work for me because X, Y, Z." But don't try to position your opinion as part of the majority and something "Highly controversial" when it in fact might not be. To do that seems like you're trying add extra validity to your position when you really don't need to since it's just an opinion and not objective fact.

*Edit* And it's not hypocritical for me to say "relatively small" because I sourced where I got that info from.
 
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AaronOfBarbaria

Adventurer
Its like people want to shout down any dissenting voice simply for not following the group mind here.
That is no more true than if I were to say that it is like people who don't share popular opinion want to act personally attacked simply by anyone stating disagreement.

You are as free as the rest of us to express whatever your opinions might be. Just as you are free to disagree with the "group mind", that alleged group is free to disagree with you. And someone expressing disagreement is not shouting you down.
 

I'm interested in making a sailor who, when pirates maraud his ship, set it aflame it and tie him to the mast, appeals for help...any help...the only answering call came from the Deep...
He turns his soul over and the Deep demands blood in return. Said sailor then embarks on a campaign to find the Pirates (since disbanded and retired from the sea following a big haul) and enact revenge.
The Deep being also awakens the sailors physical attributes, making his body a lethal weapon; granting him Devils sight and the ability to change his face (combined with his variant human Actor feat); his boon is to allow him to summon any weapon - when they appear they are greenish and covered in barbacles, engraved with obscene Eldritch shapes.
So my plan is to go Warlock 1, Warlock 2, Monk 1, Monk 2, Warlock 3, then Monk 3 and go Shadow Monk.

The issue is...GOO is thematically a good fit for the Deep... But Fiends HP gift on a kill and hurl through hell (a dark underwater nightmare realm) fit better.

Yeah, it's basically Cthulhu meets Jaqen Hagar.

My point? Maybe a reverse dip is all you need. Rather than dip Warlock for 2/3 levels to boost another class, perhaps a 2/3 level dip in another class is what you need to boost warlock.
Min max wise, this character is never going to be super optimised, and will be behind the power curve of his party, but man, he will be a cool character to play.
 

Xeviat

Hero
If you're using Eldritch Blast and Hex, then you're using the Warlock as a magical fighter and they work fine. If you're not using Hex, they're a different style of caster (past 11th, they have similar number of high level slots, but instead of a pile of low level slots they get regenerating mid level slots).

They're as "boring" as a Fighter is, but only if you're self restricting your options. Even then, they still have more spell options than even an EK.

My issue with the Warlock is that they don't play nice with multiclassing; a 10/10 Warlock/Anything misses out on a lot. Also, the bladelock is weird; A normal warlock with eldritch blast, agonizing blast, and crossbow expert works better than a bladelock.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Summarizing, your complaints appear to be (correct me if I'm wrong):

a) A two-level dip in warlock gives other PCs access to the major benefit of the class (eldritch blast with Agonizing Blast/Repelling Blast).

b) Because few campaigns can enforce the recommended 6-8 encounters with two short rests per day, warlocks get the short end of the stick compared to the daily casters.

c) With only two spell slots (three at high levels) and so few short rests, playing a warlock is boring.

I can't really argue with b). With respect to a) and c), what about invocations? Those are supposed to be the warlock's bread and butter. The stronger ones have level minimums, so you can't get them by dipping, and most are usable at will with no limit. How do you find they work out in practice?
 

ad_hoc

(they/them)
I think warlocks are a test to see how balanced a campaign is.

If resting is unbalanced a warlock in the party will highlight it.

If the 3 pillars are unbalanced, again, a warlock will highlight it. They have a lot of great social abilities (and to a lesser extent exploration ones due to deception/illusion). If a campaign is highly focused on combat then the warlock may feel constrained by needing to invest all of their invocations on enhancing eldritch blast and their spell slots on hex. Then feel bored.

So I think the warlock is fine. It's just that if a game leans heavily one way or another, the warlock will show the flaws in that set up.
 

Al2O3

Explorer
From reading the class description and monster manual I would expect the warlock to get problems at high levels against some foes (the terrasque and Tiamat have been mentioned, the Rakasha is another example) immune to most or all of the warlock's spells. But other than that it seems to be more a pacing/group/DM problem with too few short rests per adventuring day. And I assume that not expecting to spam Eldritch blast would make you disappointed.

The comparison that got me interested in actuality trying the warlock was with a ranged fighter. The number of attacks, the range and damage would be similar, with the fighter getting action surge and other neat damage boosts while the warlock gets hex and some other useful spells. I would expect the fighter to be better at dealing damage, while the warlock would have more utility for interaction and exploration.

Another thing I like about warlock: with the right invocations it can wake up without any gear or similar, cast mage armour and be ready for combat. I also wouldn't have reason to keep track of the number of arrows. However, with SCAG I prefer Sun Soul monk in the department of "can always do something useful in a fight".

It should maybe be noted that I haven't seen a warlock and a full caster in the same party without something making the comparison off. I DM Lost Mines of Phandelver with a level 3 party. The feylock is the party tank, the moon druid often has to put in effort to get to the front line in wild shape while the ranger hands out lots of damage. The order of the Awakened Mystic will be replaced due the boring play of "I hang back and spam thought spear, roll saves".

Skickat från min Nexus 6 via Tapatalk
 

Ashrym

Legend
I have playtested all 3 pacts at each tier and various levels, and I have played a fiend patron tome pact warlock from 1st thru 20th levels. I typically stick with lore bards as a personal favourite but I prefer warlocks to every other major spell casting class aside from bards.

The flavour and fun factors are excellent. Those are always my priority.

Mechanically, early in levels the short rest gives more slots per day than other low level casters. The party cannot simply take 7 more hours because the benefits of a long rest can only be taken once per 24 hour period, meaning those other 7 hours do nothing but turn it into an 8 hour short break, normally. Once the other spell casters are catching up in daily slots, the smart choice is in having spent an invocation or two on at-will SLA's that would normally also cost other spell casters slots for which the warlock wouldn't need to spend. Later, spell slots do increase, more and better SLA invocations become available, and arcanum are gained. Given that 2 short rests gets up to 12 5th-level slots on two short rests it becomes challenging for other casters when the bulk of their spells are cast below 5th-level slots instead of equal or above.

It's really easy to make a competitive magician out of a warlock. The only difference between chain and tome is the better familiars versus more cantrips, plus the assumed ritual book instead of the chain restricted invocations.

The idea that slots need to be used on hex is a bad assumption. The option does not need to be used simply because it exists even if it's a warlock unique spell. Eldritch blast already hit top damage for cantrip options beyond most selections available to other spell casters, and one invocation at 2nd level puts even farther ahead of almost every cantrip option available. That's why it's a popular splash choice. Hex should be a choice when it makes sense, but hanging on to that choice while ignoring other options is a player issue, not a mechanical issue.

What's ironic is part of the complaint stemmed from spamming eldritch blast but that's exactly what other characters taking the same option via warlock splash are also doing, and they also use their concentration to cover it, but they also gain access to higher level abilities with a 2-level delay so the warlock gains higher level spells available sooner in doing the same thing as those other classes taking the splash. It's even more ironic that pretty much all low level spell casters are spamming cantrips a lot but the warlock clearly excels in that area.

Blade pact warlocks are a bit different, but medium armor is available with a feat or building from a dwarf or via a splash, or the character can use DEX as the primary combat ability score. In my experience, they take more careful planning but also typically out damage eldritch spammers most of the time with those focused builds. The problem with cantrips in general is that most cantrip options don't do ability modifier damage once and the options in other classes that do add that damage tend to be once. Eldritch blast is the exception to this rule and still available as a ranged option to blade pact warlocks. Eldritch blast isn't generally worth looking at over weapons until 11th level on that 3rd blast but the 12th-level blade invocation makes the difference back up, and feats can keep the blade warlock ahead even with the 4th blast at the highest levels. Without feats the weapon user would need to rely on poison but doing so still gives weapon use the advantage even without feats.

The damage resistance available to fiend patron warlocks is another important consideration and one I would recommend on the blade warlock.

Blade warlocks are effective but take more advanced planning.

Overall, I find the concerns raised in the OP unwarranted. In my experience, taking advantage of at will SLA's in the invocations is definitely worth while.

The final comment that I would add is that the "5mwd" is a player created issue that I see in discussions but not in gameplay. Players manage their resources instead of blowing their spells. The first thing that springs to mind when the subject does come up is that one player is withdrawing from active play while everyone else continue to play and have fun while continuing to acquire experience and treasure. It is not that the DM forces the players to continue playing; it is that the players are roleplaying instead of gaming the mechanics and don't show a rest at will sense of entitlement. Short and long rest opportunities occur at adventure points naturally.
 

My issue with the Warlock is that they don't play nice with multiclassing; a 10/10 Warlock/Anything misses out on a lot.
Not addressing you in particular, but just grabbing the quote since it's concise. It sounds like the major problem that everyone has with Warlocks has to do with multiclassing (and maybe feats). The Warlock is fine as its own thing, but it's different enough from everything else that it's too tempting to splash and not tempting enough to split evenly with another class.

Has anyone had experience playing a Warlock 1-20 in a game without multiclassing or feats? How did it fare relative to other characters who also did not multiclass or have feats?
 

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