D&D (2024) It feels so much like the D&D Next playtest did

[Aldarc]

I don’t know how many of y’all participated in the D&D Next playtests, but I did, and the vibe around here since the 1D&D packet dropped feels to me just like the WotC forums did then (though maybe a little bit less edition-warry). And I love it. The energy and passion are palpable, and the debates are all so clearly coming from a place of love for the game and desire to help it become the best it can be, from all sides. I can tell we’re in for an incredible 18 (ish) months. Just wanted to express that. I love you all.

Just remember: this is NOT a new edition. wink wink nudge nudge

 

[Li Shenron]

I don’t know how many of y’all participated in the D&D Next playtests, but I did, and the vibe around here since the 1D&D packet dropped feels to me just like the WotC forums did then (though maybe a little bit less edition-warry). And I love it. The energy and passion are palpable, and the debates are all so clearly coming from a place of love for the game and desire to help it become the best it can be, from all sides. I can tell we’re in for an incredible 18 (ish) months. Just wanted to express that. I love you all.

I appreciate your optimism, but I don't feel that way...

I participated in D&D Next playtest, and that edition change came at a point where the gamerbase was severely fractured between those who liked and played 4e, and those who hated and stayed with 3.0/3.5/PF. D&D Next gave all the opportunity to heal the fracture, and I'd say it succeeded pretty well.

I really don't think we currently have a fractured gamebase, my general feeling is that 5e is as big as D&D has even been, then there's some successful fringe variants like LevelUp which I don't think they are played instead of 5e but rather together with it, I don't see a fracture at all. If anything, a fracture could happen because of a 2024 revision that takes changes too far.

At the same time, I am sorry but I don't feel like the desire is to really help D&D be the best it can be... a lot of people never stops wanting to change the rules, as soon as 5e core books came out they immediately flooded forums with house rules to change default rules they haven't even tried to play, this is still going on today and will keep on going on even after the 2024 revision: you can be sure that the day after the revised books are released, the same people who seemed most excited by the changes will already complain about something and ask for more changes. A large part of the gamer base just has this side hobby of endless change for the sake of change, because it is a rewarding process by itself, but achieving a supposed perfection of the game is not their purpose, it would in fact mean the end of their true hobby.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don’t know how many of y’all participated in the D&D Next playtests, but I did, and the vibe around here since the 1D&D packet dropped feels to me just like the WotC forums did then (though maybe a little bit less edition-warry). And I love it. The energy and passion are palpable, and the debates are all so clearly coming from a place of love for the game and desire to help it become the best it can be, from all sides. I can tell we’re in for an incredible 18 (ish) months. Just wanted to express that. I love you all.

Agree totally but for me there's hope but also a lot of fear, because the Next playtest had tons of great stuff that got cut and a lot of this feels beautiful but vulnerable, and like a bunch of people who don't even get it are going to stomp all over it.

Hopefully not though.

 

[HammerMan]

I just hope that more of the exciting ideas make it to the end product this time. Very little of the stuff my group and I provided positive feedback for made it to 5e. Which, maybe we were extreme outliers or something, but it really made us wonder...

This is my fear too. And the martial classes and Sorcere (we feel) is worse off for the playtest feed back.

 

[HammerMan]

All the good ideas were shouted down by grognards, who are now vastly outnumbered by new players.

But are those new players going to down load a playtest and fill out a survey?

 

[HammerMan]

As long as no one negative bot-spams the survey, I think we'll be okay.

I am in a 2e face book group full of grognards who still play 2e (I still have a soft spot for it) and we never talk any WoTC or 5e stuff… until yesterday when someone brought up useing the playtest to try to “win back” the heart of D&D. 2 people before it got locked by admin were talking about starting a discord to make such a bot. They didn’t even want to just get there voice heard one literally said “Sabotage it so WoTC will sell it to a real gaming group when this 6e fails”

I don’t have any clue if such a bit is possible.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

But are those new players going to down load a playtest and fill out a survey?

That's a good question. Honestly I suspect the vast majority will not, because they feel they've done their bit by pivoting or downvoting on Reddit. If the survey is anything like previous ones the odds of them making it to the end are extremely low. I sincerely hope WotC are taking a more advisory sort of attitude to surveys here than they did with Next and the 70% approval nonsense. Also that they don't have a bunch of secret grogs who they're listening to ahead of everyone else.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I am in a 2e face book group full of grognards who still play 2e (I still have a soft spot for it) and we never talk any WoTC or 5e stuff… until yesterday when someone brought up useing the playtest to try to “win back” the heart of D&D. 2 people before it got locked by admin were talking about starting a discord to make such a bot. They didn’t even want to just get there voice heard one literally said “Sabotage it so WoTC will sell it to a real gaming group when this 6e fails”

I don’t have any clue if such a bit is possible.

I don't know what system WotC uses for surveys but it is highly likely to have protection against that kind of automated ballot-stuffing. Plus it's highly unlikely they'd even have the technical competence and determination to implement such a thing.

 

[HammerMan]

That's a good question. Honestly I suspect the vast majority will not, because they feel they've done their bit by pivoting or downvoting on Reddit. If the survey is anything like previous ones the odds of them making it to the end are extremely low. I sincerely hope WotC are taking a more advisory sort of attitude to surveys here than they did with Next and the 70% approval nonsense. Also that they don't have a bunch of secret grogs who they're listening to ahead of everyone else.

My niece is one of those new players. I know she won’t sit through a 3+ page survey as much as I wish she would. But if they made a “sound” on tic tok to “stitch” she would make a dozen 1 minute response videos for them to see

 

[Nickolaidas]

At the same time, I am sorry but I don't feel like the desire is to really help D&D be the best it can be... a lot of people never stops wanting to change the rules, as soon as 5e core books came out they immediately flooded forums with house rules to change default rules they haven't even tried to play, this is still going on today and will keep on going on even after the 2024 revision: you can be sure that the day after the revised books are released, the same people who seemed most excited by the changes will already complain about something and ask for more changes. A large part of the gamer base just has this side hobby of endless change for the sake of change, because it is a rewarding process by itself, but achieving a supposed perfection of the game is not their purpose, it would in fact mean the end of their true hobby.

Well, just because I'll be happy with what they did with A doesn't mean I approve B. An interesting concept however. People changing for the sake of changing it, and not due to improvement's sake. Anti-traditionists.

I think of house rules like Skyrim mods. At the end of the day, everyone wants the game tailored to their tastes. It's universally impossible for WotC to make a single edition whose vanilla rules will satisfy absolutely everyone. For example, if I was older when me and my big brother played BECMI, there's no way in hell we wouldn't houserule the save or die rolls, which old TSR books were giving out like candy.

I agree that the 5th edition seems to have helped bring back a lot of the people who were alienated by 4th (felt too video-gamey for my tastes, personally with all the monster underlings who would die with a single attack). It gave me an impression it was like playing tabletop Diablo with the intention of making everything resolve ultra-fast. Now granted, I never played a single session in that edition, but that was the vibe I got.

I think the majority of people who had a problem with 5E were people who didn't like the rules one-upping the lore. And I share a lot of their criticism with them on that one (the orc/drow debate for example but lets not open that can of worms here), but I recently tried to give WotC another shot.

The only thing that bothered me on 5E's twilight were those changes which were all about adding options, bonuses and removing penalties. I get the logic, I get why they did that, but if WotC now is following a 'more options, no restrictions' policy, what does that mean for a setting like Dark Sun on 6E/D&D One? Will they have every race of the PHB available despite some of them being supposedly extinct on Athas? Will they touch upon the gritty themes the setting used to have or will they be considered too 'risky' on 6E/One D&D? I just don't want Dark Sun to end up being 'Forgotten Realms on a very, very hot summer' if they ever decide to make the damn book ... which I feel is just a matter of time, considering we currently have FR, Ravenloft, Eberron, MtG, Spelljammer, and at the end of the year, Dragonlance.