July 07: Monster Manual V, Maps of Adventure

[Crust]

Damn them! Damn them for publishing books! What jerks!

Yes. My thoughts exactly. It's not like Wizards is a publishing company or anything.



The redundancy in the books is unsettling. And yes, these newer books have new feats, spells, etc., but I think Wizards might have published something else aside from a third dragon book, a fourth Monster Manual (rife with monsters with class levels, something I can do just as easily on my own), and another fighter-based book (when three already exist to my knowledge).

The simple fact that Wizards gave us 3.0 only to "redo" things in 3.5 is very unsettling. Why not just do things right the first time? Seems like simple logic to me. Unless it's not about doing things right and more about the almighty dollar. Spending another $90 on books I thought I already owned made me feel manipulated and cheated. Me no like.

 

[Festivus]

Isn't the new leather covered Monster Manual going to feature a) the new stat block format and b) knowledge check information? (I think I am wrong about b but one can hope).

Does that not fit a "reworked" orginal MM? I would love a second printing in a more affordable format personally.

 

[buzz]

Crust, there's ample precedent for multiple monster manuals, books on classes, books on dragons, etc; WotC isn't doing anything previous owners haven't done. If anything, WotC's release schedule is downright sedate compared to most of TSR's tenure. The overall quality is also much, much better. Not to mention, WotC has produced plenty of interesting, not-the-same-old-thing books alongside the old faithfuls (that people keep asking them to do, FYI): Incarnum, ToM, Bo9S, WoL, UA, Eberron, etc.

As for the whole upgrading to 3.5 thing, there's not much we can say that hasn't been said before. You're not obligated to buy the books, and 99% of the changes were made available for free in the SRD. If you didn't think the books were worth your money, you could have returned them or sold them on ebay. Assuming you purchased them in 2003 and have been playing D&D with them since, I think you've probably gotten your money's worth.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Spending another $90 on books I thought I already owned made me feel manipulated and cheated. Me no like.

How are you being cheated or manipulated? If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em. It's hard to have sympathy for someone if they're gonna pay that kind of money for something they don't want. I only buy WotC books that interest me, and I don't feel like I'm somehow left out of things when I don't buy the latest releases.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

As for the whole upgrading to 3.5 thing, there's not much we can say that hasn't been said before. You're not obligated to buy the books, and 99% of the changes were made available for free in the SRD. If you didn't think the books were worth your money, you could have returned them or sold them on ebay. Assuming you purchased them in 2003 and have been playing D&D with them since, I think you've probably gotten your money's worth.

Plus, WotC released a booklet, free for the download, which explains the changes and provides 3.5 updates for the 3.0 books. It's right here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a.

 

[buzz]

Plus, WotC released a booklet, free for the download, which explains the changes and provides 3.5 updates for the 3.0 books. It's right here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a.

Yep.

It's really hard for me to take any complaints about money-grubbin' ol' WotC very seriously. I mean, a good chunk of their core products (D&D, d20M, a bunch of supplements) is available for FREE on the Web. Add to that all the free stuff on their website, and, man, I just cannot get all that worked up.

Heck, by the end of the day, I will have spent more money on sushi and Italian food than I do on most WotC books.

WotC's business model involves selling books. Regardless of how you feel about that model, WotC is going to keep publishing new books. Not every single one is going to be TEH M0ST AW3SOM3 EVAR!!1! Use your judgment and stick to your budget. I hear there's even this website where you can get 20,000 people's opinions about all the products WotC releases...

 

[Sejs]

and another fighter-based book (when three already exist to my knowledge).

I'm going to go out on a limb and venture that you havn't really looked through the Book of Nine Swords, then? It's actually a lot closer to Incarnum, introducing an entirely new system, rather than being 'just another figher-based book'.

The simple fact that Wizards gave us 3.0 only to "redo" things in 3.5 is very unsettling. Why not just do things right the first time? Seems like simple logic to me.

The profoundness of this statement just blows my tiny mind. Just do it right the first time. Predict product popularity, all the options people want and market drive. Forsee consumer responses before the books hit the table. Your simple logic is actually a very tall order, Crust. Much, much easier said than done.

Unless it's not about doing things right and more about the almighty dollar. Spending another $90 on books I thought I already owned made me feel manipulated and cheated. Me no like.

Then don't buy them. Nobody's going to call the Gamestapo on you if you don't buy the books. Seriously, two points.

1) Yes, WotC, TSR, and every game company everywhere, ever is a business, and as such exists to sell itself. Don't act so supprised when making money is on their list of priorties. However,

2) The people who make these products are gamers just like you and me. They want to make things people enjoy because they enjoy them too. We're not talking about some divorceable, faceless entity that's out to strip you of your wallet and leave you bleeding in a ditch while laughing madly. They're your fellow gamers. Cut 'em some slack.

 

[RichGreen]

Wizards will publish anything. It's incredible. Complete Mage when we already have Complete Arcane? Dragon Magic when we already have a Draconomicon? The Book of Nine Swords is another waste of trees. And the MM4? Do we really need those spawn of Tiamat? Wizards gotta get their paper, I suppose. :\

I think the Book of Nine Swords is one of the more interesting books to come out for some time. There are some good monsters in MMIV too: the vitreous drinker for example. If there's going to be an MMV, like others, I'd like to see some more conversions, including iconics such as the modrons, the froghemoth and the giff.

Cheers


Richard

 

[Crust]

*Heavily edited out of respect for others*

I bought the 3.5 books because I didn't want to be left behind. I suppose if I only had $90 in my back account at the time, I wouldn't have bought them. Luckily for me, I could afford it, so it's not a big deal (and certainly not worth wasting time quoting me paragraph by paragraph).

There's no reason to quote me and jump down my throat for daring to share my opinion. If my opinion differs from yours, suck it up and show some respect. And yes, I've read through the Book of Nine Swords (thank you for assuming I'm ignorant).

Sheesh... I'll be sure to be careful the next time I post my opinion so I don't stir up the hornets' nest. My bad.

:\

 

[BOZ]

good, see that it doesn't! we'll have no free-thinking or dissent around these parts...