July Errata is up

[The Little Raven]

I really wish they would encompass all the updates into new printings of the books.

Easier said than done. A change can have a cascading effect on the layout. For example, the addition of the Hop Down action in Acrobatics could push the entire chapter to be one page larger than it was previous, which would require quite a bit more work for layout people.

 

[Zaran]

Easier said than done. A change can have a cascading effect on the layout. For example, the addition of the Hop Down action in Acrobatics could push the entire chapter to be one page larger than it was previous, which would require quite a bit more work for layout people.

Aw gee. Nevermind then! Don't want to give them any work. Actually, I do. They can sell the updated book for the same price as it first was with their new layout work and still make quite alot of profit since the info is already there. The art is already there. The customer base is there as well.

 

[MacMathan]

Hmm interesting.

I have to say I have not seen a Wizard in our group take the original MM since 4e has been out, even the Human ones so maybe this will rectify this.

On the other hand I also agree that it could have been a additive change. Oh well maybe we will get a Dragon article renaming the original into something else "sometimes-magical missile" or something

 

[Markn]

Changing gears here...

Does anyone think Maze requires errata? You make an Int check against the Wizards defence. We are level 28 and most monsters have no chance of succeeding on the first 3 round and its not uncommon from some monsters to finally escape on round 5, meaning they have burned their standard action that round so in effect it hoses a creature for up to 6 rounds.

Plus an Int check doesn't seem very 4e to me.

I'm surprised this one has not seen a change yet.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I have to say I have not seen a Wizard in our group take the original MM since 4e has been out, even the Human ones so maybe this will rectify this.

There's one in my group now. Out of 2 wizards that have played any substantial time in the group the first was eladrin and had T-Wave and CoD. The second is human and has T-Wave, MM, and I think Ray of Frost (no, they don't bother to look in AP or anything like that for better powers, lol). She uses MM a lot, really I think unless some other option leaps out at her. Really it wasn't a bad spell. At level 10 she's doing 2d4+5+3+3 = 16 avg on a hit. With the new MM she'd do 1 + 5 + 3 + 3 = 12 damage per hit, so it will actually be a slight damage boost with Staff of Ruin +3 and INT 20. I think this is pretty typical for casual players. With a bit more optimization like say DIS and a master's wand no doubt the old version would be up there around the same DPR.

 

[Aegeri]

Monsters have stats as well and should be adding their int mod + 1/2 level like anything else. Plus every time they fail they get a +5 bonus to it as well. Maze is useful, but it doesn't really lead to "Nova" rounds and similar, so it's really not as bad as many other things.

 

[Markn]

Monsters have stats as well and should be adding their int mod + 1/2 level like anything else. Plus every time they fail they get a +5 bonus to it as well. Maze is useful, but it doesn't really lead to "Nova" rounds and similar, so it's really not as bad as many other things.

Yep, but the numbers are still too low. They simply can't make it on the first couple of rounds and need a REALLY high number on the 3rd. 4 rounds is about average.

Our group has discovered that target removal is an effective tactic. Removing one monster is like lowering the Encounter level of the fight. Particularly if he is removed for a LONG time with Maze. In several instances, the monster returned when everyone else was dead. Don't underestimate target removal, I kid you not. It is a VERY effective tactic - particularly when there is a lot of monster synergy.

Edit: To give some numbers, our level 28 wizard has a 43 will (boostable by his ED). Most creatures will be around 20-24 on their Int roll. 1st round is a fail, 2nd round high chance of fail, 3rd round is about 50/50, 4th round is a decent chance, 5th round about guaranteed. Also remember it burns your Standard Action so some monsters can't do anything until the following round.

 

[Markn]

There's one in my group now. Out of 2 wizards that have played any substantial time in the group the first was eladrin and had T-Wave and CoD. The second is human and has T-Wave, MM, and I think Ray of Frost (no, they don't bother to look in AP or anything like that for better powers, lol). She uses MM a lot, really I think unless some other option leaps out at her. Really it wasn't a bad spell. At level 10 she's doing 2d4+5+3+3 = 16 avg on a hit. With the new MM she'd do 1 + 5 + 3 + 3 = 12 damage per hit, so it will actually be a slight damage boost with Staff of Ruin +3 and INT 20. I think this is pretty typical for casual players. With a bit more optimization like say DIS and a master's wand no doubt the old version would be up there around the same DPR.

The human wizard in our group has MM too. We are level 28 and he still has Wizards Fury (I think thats the name - it lets you cast MM as a minor action for the encounter). He uses MM quite a bit and it packs a wallop.

 

[The Little Raven]

Aw gee. Nevermind then! Don't want to give them any work. Actually, I do. They can sell the updated book for the same price as it first was with their new layout work and still make quite alot of profit since the info is already there. The art is already there. The customer base is there as well.

It's more than that.

If the book grows by one page, that changes the page count. If I remember correctly, that means they'd need to add 3 more pages since it's done in multiples of 4. That means more changes to the book, which starts to add up. What began as the addition of errata has turned into more.

That is not going to happen.

 

[BobTheNob]

There's one in my group now. Out of 2 wizards that have played any substantial time in the group the first was eladrin and had T-Wave and CoD. The second is human and has T-Wave, MM, and I think Ray of Frost (no, they don't bother to look in AP or anything like that for better powers, lol). She uses MM a lot, really I think unless some other option leaps out at her. Really it wasn't a bad spell. At level 10 she's doing 2d4+5+3+3 = 16 avg on a hit. With the new MM she'd do 1 + 5 + 3 + 3 = 12 damage per hit, so it will actually be a slight damage boost with Staff of Ruin +3 and INT 20. I think this is pretty typical for casual players. With a bit more optimization like say DIS and a master's wand no doubt the old version would be up there around the same DPR.

Hang on a minute. The description in the errata sais "If the implement used with this power that has an enhancement bonus add that bonus to the damage". That means add the enhancement damage. The extra damage from a staff of ruin(above a different staff of the same enhancement level) in "Item" bonus...doesnt that mean that a staff of ruin is actually not a very good staff to use with MM.