July Errata is up

[Nifft]

The new version still gets the enhancement bonus -- but you probably knew that, being a mighty penguin and all.

Yep yep. My point is that it's more than the +1 Enhancement that the other poster had used as the basis of his argument.

But the big one is probably still a Leader's power bonus to damage. That's harder to account for on one's build, but it's very much a factor in our real combats.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brandis]

Was so overpowered that the Swordmage could use Master Lotus Riposte against an enemy that he marked with his aegis?

I understand the other change about being able to repeat the attack against one enemy, but i do not understand why is so bad that the enemy is under your aegis. (I was hoping to try it with my Shielding Swordmage as it was a neat option to stay next to the striker and the aegised enemy )

 

[Nifft]

Was so overpowered that the Swordmage could use Master Lotus Riposte against an enemy that he marked with his aegis?

No, it was generally a bad idea -- his class features use his Immediate action!

White Lotus Riposte works great for a Swordmage, but not the Master version.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brandis]

I know that ... but I was thinking something like this, against the aegised enemy (my SM is Shielding):

Hit my friend and you do that with a -2 and I will reduce the damage you do.

Hit me and you will not only get my Int damage but also will get another attack.

It was nice as we have a melee striker in our party ... But now, I can´t use that idea ... That was why i asked if it was so overpowered.

 

[Aegeri]

No, it was generally a bad idea -- his class features use his Immediate action!

No, absolutely wrong. The point you miss here is the swordmage forces the monster into a permanent catch 22. It either attacks him and is attacked, or it attacks an ally and is attacked (or has its damage reduced and takes a -2 or -3 penalty to the attack roll). It gives a guaranteed attack or effect regardless of if the creature actually attacks using the mark or not.

This is probably not the original intention of the power and how it should interact with a defender, hence the qualifier on marks.

 

[Nifft]

No, absolutely wrong.

No, you are absolutely wrong!

(Remember that the same tier that grants you WLRiposte v2 access also grants access to Double Aegis. Allowing a Swordmage to blow his Interrupt on an attack that targets himself removes his ability to control his second Mark.)

... but really the reason it stinks for a Swordmage is that they should be spending their Interrupts either enforcing their Mark, or using Encounter powers like Dimensional Vortex. If they're spending both their standard action AND their interrupt action on at-will powers, they're screwing themselves over.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aegeri]

... but really the reason it stinks for a Swordmage is that they should be spending their Interrupts either enforcing their Mark, or using Encounter powers like Dimensional Vortex. If they're spending both their standard action AND their interrupt action on at-will powers, they're screwing themselves over.

No they aren't, this isn't screwing them at all.

At what point is guaranteeing an extra attack every round "screwing" yourself? That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It either attacks you and is attacked, or attacks an ally and is attacked. It's a classic catch 22 situation for the defender, guaranteeing he will get an immediate action extra attack. Making 2 attacks > making 1 attack. You can mark an enemy, use swordburst to attack multiple enemies and then guarantee another attack (either swordburst on the target you've marked, or you will get the swordmage interrupt attack).

You could do this every round guaranteeing an extra attack every round and not compromising your ability to defend at all.

If this is "Screwing yourself" then I would hate to see what you would consider actually *good*.

 

[Abraxas]

Hmm - not happy with the change to free actions. While not terribly common, the free attack had its uses for my Rogue with the Two-Weapon Opening feat plus powers that let him get in more than one attack in a round.

A lot of the updates make my group feel like collateral damage, they are made to fix specific problems with specific Char-Op builds (IMHO) and our non-optimized characters get whacked.

These changes plus the increased monster damages mean we spend more time patching up and have to take extended rests more often - the woes of having a group of casual gamers.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Regarding Inescapable Force and New Magic Missle, I'd refer to the sidebar that ran in Dragon 381 for Arcane Bolt (also big thanks to webrunner for guiding me to this):

This article introduces some powers that automatically deal damage to one or more enemies. Keep in mind that because the damage is in the “Effect” line, the powers don’t hit, and therefore can’t benefit from effects that trigger off of a hit. Also, since the damage is a flat number, it isn’t considered a damage roll, and therefore it doesn’t benefit from effects that increase the result of a damage roll (but can still benefit from extra damage that doesn’t require a roll).

I'd say that applies here as well.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Hmm - not happy with the change to free actions. While not terribly common, the free attack had its uses for my Rogue with the Two-Weapon Opening feat plus powers that let him get in more than one attack in a round.

A lot of the updates make my group feel like collateral damage, they are made to fix specific problems with specific Char-Op builds (IMHO) and our non-optimized characters get whacked.

These changes plus the increased monster damages mean we spend more time patching up and have to take extended rests more often - the woes of having a group of casual gamers.

The disadvantage of constant rules patching. The "fixes" must cater to the l33t optimizers. For anyone not playing on the edge....well you should be or don't bother logging in.