Knife fighters

[BSF]

Though it isn't core, there are two feats that allow you to use your dex bonus for damage with a finessable weapon.

Check -
Heroes of High Favor: Elves (By Badaxe games)
Swashbuckling Adventures (By AEG)

This would allow you to do good damage without relying on high strength.

Also, try to talk your DM into allowing Greater Magic Weapon to work with your daggers in the same way that it works with arrows, bolts, and bullets. That wouldn't seem to be too unbalancing since a longbow has a higher damage potential.

Alas, both are non-core suggestions.

Personally, I think a good knife fighter is a cool concept. One that _should_ work well, but with the 1d4 damage as the weapon base, it just isn't appealing to most players.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Thanks, all. I was assuming TWF, should have mentioned it. Rogue levels are a good idea, maybe with Shadowdancer later. I don't want to go with daggers and shortswords, gotta be one or the other. I'm leaning towards short swords with Throw Anything. Halfling is a good idea, the +1 to thrown weapons will be useful.

 

[LokiDR]

I don't think you can make an effective dagger "fighter". Most characters would be some or mostly rogue. You will have a problem with DR without a high damage source like sneak attack. I don't think this style will ever be the kind of standup front-liner that sword-n-board or two-hander are, but they can be very deadly.

 

[Azure Trance]

Depending ...

But you could use a magic enhancement to seriously beef up your daggers damage dealing potential. I've seen it statted a few ways - either called Potent (Stone & Steel) or Scaling (Forged In Magic).

Version A) +1 Bonus = +1 Scale (Cap is either +4 or +5)
Ex: +0 / 1d4 = +1 / 1d6 = +2 / 1d8 = +3 / 2d6 = +4 / 2d8

Version B) +2 Bonus = +1 Scale (Cap is +4)
Ex: +0 / 1d4 = +2 / 1d4 = +4 / 1d8

I've made several interesting (NPC, mind you) characters with disgusting potential armed with benign looking daggers to give PCs a wallop of a shock. I'm also quite biased by Desperado.

 

[LokiDR]

Depending ...

But you could use a magic enhancement to seriously beef up your daggers damage dealing potential. I've seen it statted a few ways - either called Potent (Stone & Steel) or Scaling (Forged In Magic).

I think there is a real danger in mixing many books. There is a feat in some book called extra finess or some such that allows you to use your dex instead of strength for bonus weapon damage. This can be unbalancing IMO.

That said, I think if you apply the same kind of effort to the sword-and-boar or two-hander you will get just as much, if not more. Daggers wearn't really meant to be front line damage and making them into that takes some of the style and consistancy out of the game. If any weapon can be anything, why bother with one choice other than "that looks cool".

 

[Korin Tempest]

re: manyshot

sorry, ferret, manyshot only works with arrows

 

[bret]

If you do go Dagger fighter, Fighter/Rogue is the best way.

Things I have not seen mentioned:

• You might want to consider Far Shot to make up for the poor range increment on Daggers.
• People who run (x4 movement) lose their Dex Bonus. Nice if someone is really fleeing and you've got Sneak Attack
• Might want to consider Kurki (sp?) instead for the better threat range. Problem with this is they are much less common of a weapon, so your chances of finding a magical one is much lower

I do think this is a workable concept, but you will have to play it differently than other 'normal' fighter types.

 

[BSF]

I think there is a real danger in mixing many books. There is a feat in some book called extra finess or some such that allows you to use your dex instead of strength for bonus weapon damage. This can be unbalancing IMO.

The more books you add, the harder it is to avoid abuse.

Personally, I go back and forth on the damage through finesse type feats. On one hand, you are encouraging the increase of a stat that affects attack rolls, damage rolls, initiative, Reflex save bonuses, AC and a number of skills. It seems to make that one stat too important.

On the other hand, the character has to burn feats to do that. Feats do not come cheap. Though if you are a dextrous finesse fighter, it could easily be worth the effort.

Anyway, I tossed the option out there for evaluation. As I said, I am not sure how I personally feel about the feats, but they might be relevant to the poster.

Back to knife fighters.

Far shot is a good idea if you plan to throw them.

The relevance of the character will have a lot to do with the style of the campaign.

 

[The Souljourner]

Just a point, if you want two weapon fighting and decent damage and thrown weapons, throwing axes fit the bill perfectly. They're light weapons, can be thrown for a 10' range increment, and do 1d6 damage. Can't beat that.

It's not knife fighting, but it's the same idea at least.

And I love the idea of having a backup greatsword... I actually play a monk in one campaign who has a backup fullblade. Only takes it out versus opponents he feels are really worth the effort, otherwise he just pummels them into submission (or, you know, death...)

-The Souljourner

 

[Iscariot]

If you do go Dagger fighter, Fighter/Rogue is the best way.

Things I have not seen mentioned:

• You might want to consider Far Shot to make up for the poor range increment on Daggers.
• People who run (x4 movement) lose their Dex Bonus. Nice if someone is really fleeing and you've got Sneak Attack
• Might want to consider Kurki (sp?) instead for the better threat range. Problem with this is they are much less common of a weapon, so your chances of finding a magical one is much lower

I do think this is a workable concept, but you will have to play it differently than other 'normal' fighter types.

I designed an NPC specializing in the kukri. A nice fighter, rogue blend. Deadly...very very deadly.

Other things to t hink about:
1. If you are primarily an urban-baded campaign, daggers are the way to go. Sometimes you get harrassed trying to go to the local baron's party with a battle-axe on your back. *grins*

2. You get underestimated. A lot. If you go into combat with your party, they will USUALLY focus more on the hulking metal monster with the two-handed death. Hence, turning their back on you....naughty naughty.

3. Cheap resources. If you lose a greatswird on the road, you can;t always find a place that has them. Everyone has daggers....for the most part. And the price is good too.


Also, in Song and Silence, there are some wonderful Feats I use for knife-fighting. One is "Flick Of the Wrist"..or something similar. You have to have Quickdraw, but you can draw and attack with a small weapon and it catches the opponent flat-footed for that attack only. Very nice if you have a few rogue levels.