Leadership and a giant for a cohort??

[kigmatzomat]

I'm with Krelios. Leadership really isn't that much of a problem. The player gets to give a general concept for the cohort (combat oriented mage, healer cleric, bodyguard fighter, etc) and I generate the cohort, define the basic personality and come up with a reason why the NPC would be a cohort.

The player RPs out the meeting with the cohort and, based on the RP, decides if they accept it. They don't have to accept it but then they have to wait for me to make another potential and wait for a plot opportunity.

Oh and I don't hand out the character sheet until the choose the PC.

 

[Silveras]

I suspect that most people who have had a problem with Leadershuip have let the player make the cohort, or made it very easy for the player to find a specific type of cohort.

Finding an unusual cohort should most likely either be an adventure unto itself, or a big distraction from the ongoing campaign.

 

[RisnDevil]

Um, in 3.5, leadership is not JUST in the DMG. It is in the PHB, with the other Feats.....

 

[Silveras]

Um, in 3.5, leadership is not JUST in the DMG. It is in the PHB, with the other Feats.....

Ouch.. so true.
Of course, it also says "Special: Check with your DM before selecting this feat, and work with your DM to determine an appropriate cohort and followers for your character."

Hmm.. by that reading, taking leadership gives you Followers whether you want them or not.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Finding an unusual cohort should most likely either be an adventure unto itself, or a big distraction from the ongoing campaign.

How's that any better? In some respects, that's even worse! You totally changing the campaign and every other PC's adventuring path for one PC and his cohort and followers? Now, multiply that by the number of PC's in the group. Take, for one example recently posted on these boards. The DM has 8 players, high level (assume 18th). How in the world is the DM expected to plan adventures for 8 18th level PC's and then come up with 8 different new subadventures for all 8 cohorts (and what about the followers who, let's face it, are not really pissants in the world)? Then, the DM is just supposed to make all these characters, complete with suitable backstory, etc.? Look, maybe Leadership is a nice feat for a paid DM or someone who doesn't work a 40+ hour week and have kids, but that would be absolutely impossible to handle. Impossible.

The only way Leadership is possible in such a situation (i.e. people who have jobs and/or families), is if the player assumes much of the burden. Then, you only have to deal with the huge amount of additional problems.

I don't mean to sound too harsh. I'm really against the book on this, not against people. Leadership sounds like a nice idea as a concept to help develop storylines and help PC's become powerful leaders in the world. It absolutely, undeniably sucks rocks when implemented as a Feat.

 

[Silveras]

How's that any better? In some respects, that's even worse! You totally changing the campaign and every other PC's adventuring path for one PC and his cohort and followers? Now, multiply that by the number of PC's in the group. Take, for one example recently posted on these boards. The DM has 8 players, high level (assume 18th). How in the world is the DM expected to plan adventures for 8 18th level PC's and then come up with 8 different new subadventures for all 8 cohorts (and what about the followers who, let's face it, are not really pissants in the world)? Then, the DM is just supposed to make all these characters, complete with suitable backstory, etc.? Look, maybe Leadership is a nice feat for a paid DM or someone who doesn't work a 40+ hour week and have kids, but that would be absolutely impossible to handle. Impossible.

It is "better" when you do not look at what I said the way you have. If I read your response correctly, you are looking at what I said as being: "As soon as a Player takes Leadership for one of his/her characters, the whole campaign must go off on a tangent to resolve that immediately. Then, other Players will do the same. The whole campaign is ruined."

Now flip that over, and think of it this way: "The consequence of wanting an unusual cohort is that the PC must invest the time to find it. Most campaigns cannot afford that time, so in most campaigns the search will have to take place in the background, between adventures, and will take some time (levels). Alternatively, the PC will be unavailable to adventure while performing that search, and the rest of the party will go on without him/her."

The burden is all on the Player who wants the unusual cohort, not on the rest of the group. *That* is how it is better.

As for followers, well, they are generic Warriors, Experts, Commoners, or even generic Fighters, Wizards, or other PC classes (3.0 was limited to NPC classes, 3.5 is not). They are several levels lower than the PC (a Leadership score of 10-12 is limited to 1st level Followers, and it takes a Leadership score of 21 to get 6th level Followers), and are not expected to be factors in combat (see page 105 of the 3.5 DMG under Followers). In other words, you can use 5 copies of the same generic Goblin Warrior from the MM for a Goblin Fighter's 5 1st-level Followers. Cohorts are the ones that take the work.