LEB Discussion Thread '09

[ukingsken]

- Proposal delay: 1 month after DDI for WotC material, 1 month after publication otherwise or 2 weeks after DDI for WotC material, 1 month after publication otherwise

YES

- Gnolls: Whether claw fighter should gain "off-hand" and be treated as "off-hand, light blade" for class features as well

YES This seems only logical

- Reaper's Touch: Whether Reaper's Touch should be shadar-kai only

NO I always thought this was a bit pointless. If you wanna stack your wizard so you can rock out melee style, it's going to cost you. I think it's a fair trade especially with the advent of similar abilities for other classes. So Reapers Touch for all!!!

- Reward Structure[sblock=Current Proposal with my modifications, with thanks to Goumindong and Lord Sessadore]- XP rewards are double: Encounters are designed with an XP budget at normal, but the XP rewarded is doubled
- Treasure rewards use a modified parcel system. Each DM gives out x number of parcels per level, where x is the number of players in their party; they chose either a lvl n+1, n+2, n+3, n+4 item, or gold in the value of an item of lvl n per character and distributes those out to each character as rewards. In addition, each character should receive gold to a value of 1/xth n. n is the level of the character in question at the time they should receive the reward and not the level of the party. The DM may not give any player any one of the rewards listed that that player has received within the current half of a tier of play [I.E between lvls 1 and 5, 6 and 10, 11 and 15, 16 and 20, 21 and 25 and 26 and 30]. A DM may give this parcel out to the player at any point during that level that they so chooses. If a player has not received a reward that they should have by the time he levels up due to time XP, the DM should indicate what parcel the player will be getting when next treasure is distributed according that player's non-level XP. If a DM should abandon the game, it is part of the judge's duty to ensure these 'IOU' parcels are properly distributed to players. If a player abandons the game before an 'IOU' parcel is awarded, that parcel is forfeit.
- Players are rewarded 1 Reward Point (RP) per month in game
- DMs are rewarded 2 RP per month at the games conclusion, none if they abandon the game[/sblock]

YES That's a lot to digest, but I'm for that system with the one condition that you more clearly explain what the 1/xth n gold represents. I understand because I followed this discussion but someone down the road might not unless we spell that out just a bit more clearly.

- Starting levels: 1–4 or 1–3

Yes on start Lvl 1-4

As an addendum should we vote on the import of characters? What levels do we allow? Also do we need to have a seperate vote for character starting wealth or can we assume that it falls under the reward system we just voted on (IE character chooses which parcels he has already received for this half tier)?

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Not ready to decide on proposal delay time yet.

Yes to claws being off-hand. I also think they should be enchantable. The monk has weapons that can't be taken away, and he can enchant his body, so precedent has been established.

Yes to Reaper's Touch for all. Or, I guess technically, no to Reaper's Touch being Shadar-kai only.

I'm a little confused about the reward system. First of all, should there be something about over the course of the level, the DM gives out one n+1 item, one n+2 item, etc.? Right now it looks like he could give out a bunch of n+4 items instead of anything else. As for the gold outside of the parcels, n/x is pretty small. Like, below 1 small. Am I misreading this? Also, the proposal doesn't say what a reward point is worth. I know it was discussed earlier, but I feel it should be here too.

Yes to starting levels 1-4, but only because I rather start at level 4 than level 3.

 

[stonegod]

1 month after DDI for WotC material, 1 month after publication otherwise or 2 weeks after DDI for WotC material, 1 month after publication otherwise

YES

Err.. were you voting for 2 weeks or 1 month DDI delay?

As an addendum should we vote on the import of characters? What levels do we allow?

I believe the consensus is just import as is level-wise. We only had 2 level 5 characters (my artificer being one); the rest were all in the range 1–4.

Also do we need to have a seperate vote for character starting wealth or can we assume that it falls under the reward system we just voted on (IE character chooses which parcels he has already received for this half tier)?

No, we shouldn't need another vote. My assumption is that starting wealth will use the tier system. So a 4th level character would choose parcels from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th as appropriate.

 

[Vertexx69]

I'm of the same mind as the others on those features.

So at 4th lvl we would get 4 items? N, N-1, N-2, N-3 and any standard gear we might need? Or is it N, N+1, N+2, N+3, N+4 like in those rewward rules? Or something in between?

 

[stonegod]

I'm a little confused about the reward system. First of all, should there be something about over the course of the level, the DM gives out one n+1 item, one n+2 item, etc.? Right now it looks like he could give out a bunch of n+4 items instead of anything else.

Yes, that needs to be made clear, but that is the intention.

As for the gold outside of the parcels, n/x is pretty small. Like, below 1 small. Am I misreading this?

At level n, you get one gold equal to the price of one magic item of level n split evenly amongst the x players.

Also, the proposal doesn't say what a reward point is worth. I know it was discussed earlier, but I feel it should be here too.

I'll make that clearer in the final write up, but 1 RP is worth 1/10th a level.

 

[stonegod]

I'm of the same mind as the others on those features.

Better reject them, then! I'm kidding, really.

So at 4th lvl we would get 4 items?

Yes, for items. An optimal pick would be
1: Item Level 2 (n+1) (n was 2 at the time)
2: Item Level 4 (n+2)
3: Item Level 6 (n+3)
4: Item Level 8 (n+4)
You'd also get gold equal to (gp of item of levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 summed) / 5 (we assume 5 is the default number of characters here). There are other picks you can make, depending on where you put the n+1... n+4's.

That way more than a character would normally get from the DMG rules (which would be item of levels 6, 5, and 4). It is closer to what a real character would get if they started on adventuring from level 1.

Note, in this scheme there is no switching out item item of level 8 for an item of level 7 and the difference in gold: If you want the level 7 item, either plan for it in the parcel, or take it w/o the GP difference awarded.

 

[ukingsken]

My bad, I meant yes to the 1 month wait time. The difference in PBP is not significant enough to care really.

And as for character creation you my understanding is that you could choose any of the available parcels for that tier. So maybe at level 1 I got an N+4, for a level 5 item, then at level two I got gold, then at level 3 an n+1 for a level 4 item, etc etc etc. Just note on your character sheet what you got at what levels.

 

[Goumindong]

this might have been my error, but it should not be 1/xth n it should be 1/5th n. Since you add more cash as more players enter that would increase the value of that "n"

Basically we are working on the assumption that a group of 5 gets, over 5 levels, 5 sets of parcels each containing an n+1, n+2, n+3, n+4 item and cash equal to 2 n.

Such, each person would get a full set assuming equal rewards every 5 levels. However, our "per 5 level" distribution as above is short "n" gold. And we decided that we wanted to spread gold out each level so that people would not feel cash strapped for smaller things such as potions, so to make up that gold equal to one n lvl item over 5 levels, you need to get 1/5th of the gold of an nth lvl item.

So, if a player starts at level 1 and levels to 6 he might gain, at each lvl

1-2 1/5th n, and 1 item n+1
2-3 1/5th n, and 1 item n+2
3-4 1/5th n, and 1 item n+3
4-5 1/5th n, and 1 item n+4
5-6 1/5th n, and gold equal to an item of nth lvl

Add them all up and you get items of n+1, n+2, n+3, n+4, and cash equal to 2n over a span of 5 levels. Exactly the same amount of items as if he had gotten an "even and fair" distribution in a 5 person party.

edit: At the begining of level 4 you would have acquired 3 parcels, at the END of level 4 you would have acquired 4.

Proposal for starting wealth:

Follow the treasure system as if you had just hit the level in question. Add your 100 gold starting wealth. So if you decided to start at level 4, you could choose 1 item or cash for lvl 1-2, one item or cash for lvl 2-3, and one item or cash for lvl 3-4 with the 1/5th n gold for each level[i should table that and someone should PM me if its not up by tomorrow]

 

[ukingsken]

You know, I work in a math centric profession and am perfectly capable of doing/following everything we've talked about in relation to the treasure system we're using/discussing but....

THANK KHYBER someone else is the one to actually do it. Not because it's hard, or because it would take a real long time, but just because every time I think about it I get annoyed.

So kudos to you sir, and a table would assist people greatly.

 

[stonegod]

this might have been my error, but it should not be 1/xth n it should be 1/5th n. Since you add more cash as more players enter that would increase the value of that "n"

Such, each person would get a full set assuming equal rewards every 5 levels. However, our "per 5 level" distribution as above is short "n" gold. And we decided that we wanted to spread gold out each level so that people would not feel cash strapped for smaller things such as potions, so to make up that gold equal to one n lvl item over 5 levels, you need to get 1/5th of the gold of an nth lvl item.

I see. I was trying to calibrate by the number of party members. In think your method short changes smaller parties and rewards larger parties in terms of gold (note the DMG parcels never add any other gold parcels), but I don't think its a big deal.

edit: At the begining of level 4 you would have acquired 3 parcels, at the END of level 4 you would have acquired 4.

Yeah, my mistake. I think an easier way to state it is that get a parcel for every level except your current. Or, for every level above first, you gain one parcel. And have an example to make it clear.