D&D 5E Legends and Lore July 28: Keeping it Classy

[Blackbrrd]

Also HP.
That is the issue. I want ambush warrior.

The rogue is too squishy, especially when you don't go heavy on Dexterity.
The fighter can fight but lacks any features that favor stealth or ambushes.

The 3e UA and the 4e PHB both supported this type of warrior. A warrior who can fight both fair and unfair.
Bugbear style. Batman style. UniSoft Assassin style. You see two guards at the door. You sneak attack one and and melee the other.

Just let your Fighter have Dex as his main stat instead of Str. Add the background you want for the skills/proficiencies and you have a lighly armored Thug stabbing away with his Rapier, adding dex to both AC, to-hit, damage, Dex-saving throw and initiative. He is also very decent with ranged weapons (due to the high dex), perfect for an ambusher.

Alternatively, make a mountain dwarf rogue that's strength based (still uses the rapier in melee) and put a 14 in dex so he gets a decent AC in his medium armor.

To me it looks much easier in 5e to make a thug-type of character, especially if you want dex as your main stat. Something that to me looks like a very good choice.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think maybe what you want is a fighter/rogue multiclass character.

Until we have multiclass rules, I'd just go with a Strength-assassin build and add Toughness. If you want to be sneaky, however, you cannot realistically expect to have an extreme AC.

There is no Strength-Assassin build in 5E that I'm aware of. Basic and the Alpha restrict you to certain weapons that mean no STR weapons. It's perverse as heck, but there you go.

In a game that leans as heavily on DM rulings as 5e (and where you can just create a background from whole cloth, anyway), I don't think it'd be unreasonable to expect your DM to allow you to re-build your character when new options become available.

(Admittedly, I don't know why the game bothers to officially say you 'can't' take back certain chargen/level-up choices, given how rules-lite and fluid it presents itself as being.)

Indeed, I've already engaged with this point once, I believe. I've certainly ALLOWED people to re-do their characters, because I'm a nice and generous DM, and I don't think it's productive to block that, but there are lots of people on this very board who would not, who do not allow anything of that sort, and who run D&D, and as you say, the book itself goes out of it's way to suggest that can't ever change stuff that it doesn't specifically say you can change.

More to the point, it's just not my experience that players have an expectation that you will do this, so don't usually purchase products on the basis that they have new base classes in UNLESS they're anticipating making an entirely new PC (who may be equal level to the others or whatever, but it's a big step). I'm actually kind of surprised that, given that almost all the classes in the game do have a strict hierarchy/framework behind what levels they get sub-class-based powers at, there isn't an option to pick-and-choose (I imagine there are some places where they don't match up).

Anyway, whereas with Feat books and the like, they do expect to have you at least think about letting them use the stuff.

 

[Remathilis]

Sounds like a weak fighter.

Yeah. I want to be able to pounce KO a mook while still able to stand up toe to toe with another. Like Batman. A warrior who has ambush and sneak attack bonuses.

Maybe a feat could work.

But thugs are popular. They need support in 5e.

Yeah, still not seeing it.

Durm
Human Fighter[Champion] (criminal) 3, N
Str 16 (+3/+5), Dex 15 (+2), Con 14 (+2/+4), Int 11 (0), Wis 13 (+1), Cha 9 (-1)
AC 16, HP 28, Spd 30 ft
HD 3d10, Init +2
Deception +1, Stealth +4, Athletics +5, Perception +3
Simple & Martial Weapons, All Armor and Shields, Cards, Thieves Tools
Common, Orc
Defense Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge (x1), Improved Critical (19-20), Criminal Contact
Morningstar (+5, 1d8+3), Heavy Crossbow (+4, 1d10+2), Chain Shirt, Burglar’s Pack, Thieves Tools, Deck of Cards, Crowbar, 10 gp

Action Surge + 30 ft move + Stealth seems like it would down most mooks, until you get Extra Attack. You have the HP withstand a decent assault, and AC equal to chainmail (with the option of grabbing a shield when the going gets tough). Oh, and you have +4 to pick locks and traps, which means you are a hearty little trapfinder.

And this one is Basic Rules-Only.

 

[TwoSix]

There is no Strength-Assassin build in 5E that I'm aware of. Basic and the Alpha restrict you to certain weapons that mean no STR weapons. It's perverse as heck, but there you go.

Actually, sneak attack restricts you to finesse and ranged weapons. Finesse lets you use either Str or Dex for attack and damage, it doesn't require Dex.

So you can do a sneak attacking half-orc brute, no problem.

 

[Remathilis]

There is no Strength-Assassin build in 5E that I'm aware of. Basic and the Alpha restrict you to certain weapons that mean no STR weapons. It's perverse as heck, but there you go.

The rule says "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." but it does NOT say you need to use your Dex score to do it.

Therefore, you could use a dagger (1d4), shortsword (1d6), scimitar (1d6), whip (1d4), or rapier (1d8) with your strength score AND still get sneak attack.

You just can't do it with a greatsword. Which is fine by me.

EDIT Assassin'd, er, ninja'd

 

[Mistwell]

There is no Strength-Assassin build in 5E that I'm aware of. Basic and the Alpha ...

Because I am sick of Alpha being cited as the authority on this, even though it is both an illegally obtained document and a known-to-be-inaccurate one, I decided to Tweet Mike Mearls and simply ask him if there will be any strength-based option for rogues. Because direct from the source is better than what we're getting from Alpha quotes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Mostly good suggestions. I have to see the berserker barbarian to see if they are spikey enough. The fighter subclasses currently don't look spikey. So if I can cheaply tank up a rogue into a decent warrior. A feat that adds 1d6 sneak attack might be good too (if not made a virtual must have for combat heavy rogues)

But I miss my 3e thug Bugbear and 4e Batman wannabe.

Hahaha, I'm optimistic, I think those will be able to be done.

And while I'm not exactly trying to convince you, I'd point out that the Champion fighter has spikes of a sort. Not only action surges and extra attacks, but CRITS should drive up their damage nicely in big booms. It's not exactly in the hands of the player as much as something like Sneak Attack, so I'm sure folks have preferences for one or the other, but those are things that can drive up DPR in hills to contrast with the normal single-melee-attack valleys.

Don't write 'em off quite yet, at any rate.

 

[Sadrik]

For sneak attack you can access the bonus damage in two ways:
Finesse or ranged weapon and advantage or any type of weapon and "flanking".

Of course it could also mean:
Access bonus damage with a finesse or ranged weapon if you have advantage or are "flanking".

 

[Dausuul]

Based on alpha, Eldritch Knight is stuck with 2nd-level spells by 12th level still, and limited to abjuration/evocation, so hope you like that Shield spell.

I thought the point of the Eldritch Knight was to serve as the fighter component of a fighter/wizard multiclass build, not to be a full-blown gish* on its own.

[size=-2]*Yes, that's right, I just used "gish" to refer to a generic warrior/spellcaster instead of a specific githyanki fighting order. You wanna make something of it?[/size]

 

[Mouseferatu]

For sneak attack you can access the bonus damage in two ways:
Finesse or ranged weapon and advantage or any type of weapon and "flanking".

Of course it could also mean:
Access bonus damage with a finesse or ranged weapon if you have advantage or are "flanking".

I think it's a stretch to read it any way but the latter, the way it's phrased. It's basically broken down like this:

1) To get SA damage, you need X and Y.

2) Under certain circumstances (flanking), you no longer need X (advantage). It says nothing about modifying the need for Y (ranged or finesse weapon).