D&D 5E Legends and Lore July 28: Keeping it Classy

[Minigiant]

Color me confused but how are they not supported? If you want a str based rogue, make one. You need to use a finesse weapon to get your sneak attack damage, but the rules pretty clearly state that you choose whether that finesse weapon is taking your str or dex bonus. What else do you need?

The only down side to makeing a str based rogue is a lower ac.

Also HP.
That is the issue. I want ambush warrior.

The rogue is too squishy, especially when you don't go heavy on Dexterity.
The fighter can fight but lacks any features that favor stealth or ambushes.

The 3e UA and the 4e PHB both supported this type of warrior. A warrior who can fight both fair and unfair.
Bugbear style. Batman style. UniSoft Assassin style. You see two guards at the door. You sneak attack one and and melee the other.

 

[Reynard]

I don't doubt that you have a source better than Wikipedia for that statement but Wikipedia's own articles on Cthulhu himself and the "Cthulhu Mythos Deities" both disagree.

The list you have linked appears to be explicitly a list of lesser Great Old Ones, not to be confused with the greater Less Old Ones of the Shadow Shadow Bo Badow.

I was thinking of this explanation:

Cthulhu is mentioned elsewhere in Lovecraft's fiction, sometimes described in ways that appear to contradict information given in "The Call of Cthulhu". For example, rather than including Cthulhu among the Great Old Ones, a quotation from the Necronomicon in "The Dunwich Horror" says of the Old Ones, "Great Cthulhu is Their cousin, yet can it spy Them only dimly."[18] But different Lovecraft stories and characters use the term "Old Ones" in widely different ways.

That said, the Mythos are notoriously inconsistent.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I want to be able to pounce KO a mook while still able to stand up toe to toe with another

It sounds like, mechanically, this might look like...

1) "Spike Damage" potential (typically, sneak attack, but possibly some other mechanic)
2) "Toughness" for engaging in melee (typicall, High HP and/or AC).
3) Non-magical.

Yeah?

Some possibilities...

1. Berserker Barbarians. Made to be melee machines, if they deliver on the 4e Barbarian's promise of being damage-dealers as well, this with a Criminal background might give you the skill set and mechanics you're looking for. ("Seriously, guys, lets not piss off the big, tough-looking guy with the axe by the door!")
2. Champion Fighters. Again, melee machines. Tend to use heavier armor, but it shouldn't be a problem to go with cheaper, lighter stuff the whole time if you have a decent Dex. Good for the "I hit it again..and again..." vibe. (*whump* "Is it still alive?" *whump* "How about now?")
3. Assassin rogues. In 1e, the assassin was D&D's "melee damage rogue" class (with the 1e thief being not so combat heavy and more into ranged attacks), and the Executioner in 4e continued this tradition. The fact that half-orcs are archetypal assassins means that it should be a good fit for strong, tough characters. This might work out of the box, if WotC continues the tradition. Heck, it's even where the word Thug comes from! ("Listen, mate, just because Brutus over there ain't all silky smooth and poisonous don't mean I can't lay down a sack of silver and get him to cave in yer skull. He's cheaper than that other kind, too, 'cuz he really just loves the work, ain't that right Brutus? You just wanna see someone get their skull crushed, aye? Would that make you happy? Aww, lookit 'im smile, I love makin' that galoot happy, understand me?")
4. A feat that adds Sneak Attack onto any other class (if they've got feats to add spellcasting, sneak attack seems like a no-brainer!).
5. A feat that adds higher HP onto any other class (or just one that bumps CON).

I don't imagine a thug-lke character will be off the table in the PHB, you just might not look to a specific "thug" rogue subclass to satisfy that need.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

Looks like my ideal ranger did not make it, but with Oath of the Ancients and Eldritch Knight in the game I can see why ranger spell casting is getting downplayed. As long as they add a woodsman background I will be happy.

Shoot, you could create your own woodsman background. I get the feeling that backgrounds really are supposed to be customized by the player and DM together and that what's included are more or less examples of backgrounds.

Heck, isn't that what prestige classes were originally supposed to be in 3e?

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's problematic, though, Mouse, because new subclasses can only be used by new PCs.

It's the same as the background issue, only worse. With a background, it's cool, but it's a choice you make once, and cannot ever make again. It's the same (AFAIK!) with sub-classes, but at least they keep on giving you stuff as you go on.

That's... actually a really good point, and one I'm a little ashamed didn't occur to me.

Okay, I'll back off my assertion a bit. I still think (and hope) there'll be plenty more subclasses down the road, but they may well not be the "go-to," after all.

 

[Minigiant]

It sounds like, mechanically, this might look like...

1) "Spike Damage" potential (typically, sneak attack, but possibly some other mechanic)
2) "Toughness" for engaging in melee (typicall, High HP and/or AC).
3) Non-magical.

Yeah?

-Good Stuff-

I don't imagine a thug-lke character will be off the table in the PHB, you just might not look to a specific "thug" rogue subclass to satisfy that need.

Mostly good suggestions. I have to see the berserker barbarian to see if they are spikey enough. The fighter subclasses currently don't look spikey. So if I can cheaply tank up a rogue into a decent warrior. A feat that adds 1d6 sneak attack might be good too (if not made a virtual must have for combat heavy rogues)

But I miss my 3e thug Bugbear and 4e Batman wannabe.

 

[Joe Liker]

Mostly good suggestions. I have to see the berserker barbarian to see if they are spikey enough. The fighter subclasses currently don't look spikey. So if I can cheaply tank up a rogue into a decent warrior. A feat that adds 1d6 sneak attack might be good too (if not made a virtual must have for combat heavy rogues)

But I miss my 3e thug Bugbear and 4e Batman wannabe.

I think maybe what you want is a fighter/rogue multiclass character.

Until we have multiclass rules, I'd just go with a Strength-assassin build and add Toughness. If you want to be sneaky, however, you cannot realistically expect to have an extreme AC.

 

[Snapdragyn]

I was thinking of this explanation:



That said, the Mythos are notoriously inconsistent.

Actually, it's entirely consistent within its own non-Euclidean framework.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That's problematic, though, Mouse, because new subclasses can only be used by new PCs.

It's the same as the background issue, only worse. With a background, it's cool, but it's a choice you make once, and cannot ever make again. It's the same (AFAIK!) with sub-classes, but at least they keep on giving you stuff as you go on.

Whereas Feats and potentially PrCs or similar can be applied to existing characters -

In a game that leans as heavily on DM rulings as 5e (and where you can just create a background from whole cloth, anyway), I don't think it'd be unreasonable to expect your DM to allow you to re-build your character when new options become available.

(Admittedly, I don't know why the game bothers to officially say you 'can't' take back certain chargen/level-up choices, given how rules-lite and fluid it presents itself as being.)

 

[Sacrosanct]

Also HP.
That is the issue. I want ambush warrior.

The rogue is too squishy, especially when you don't go heavy on Dexterity.
The fighter can fight but lacks any features that favor stealth or ambushes.

The 3e UA and the 4e PHB both supported this type of warrior. A warrior who can fight both fair and unfair.
Bugbear style. Batman style. UniSoft Assassin style. You see two guards at the door. You sneak attack one and and melee the other.

5e does that too. Just use a criminal background. There's your prof in stealth. One of my favorite characters during the playtests was a halfling fighter who preferred stealth over frontal assaults. Everyone assumed he was a rogue until they realized he was taking a butt load of punishment (high HP) and dealing out good damage each round.