D&D 5E Let's discuss the Mystic v.3

[Lanliss]

I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but these UAs just aren't balanced for MCing yet. I'd be willing to bet they don't even consider it when designing so as to not restrict themselves. That being said, the only Prof they get is light armor...so light armor, I guess. The Strength of Mind thing will obviously need to be addressed....maybe if you aren't proficient in WIS save you just don't get it. It's a cool feature, so I'm glad it's in there in the first place, even if they don't have the kinks worked out.

Of course, I am just discussing this from a community-balanced point of view. Finding out what needs work is the purpose of the testing after all, so multiclassing is almost a requirement before a survey.

 

[Belltent]

Of course, I am just discussing this from a community-balanced point of view. Finding out what needs work is the purpose of the testing after all, so multiclassing is almost a requirement before a survey.

Well then I'd say:
13 INT to MC out of or in to
Grants Light armor and simple weapons
No skills
Disciplines, Points, and Talents are obviously tracked separately from Spells/spells known
And, if you don't have proficiency in Wisdom saves then you can't switch your proficiency in Wisdom saves.

Edit: Also you'd need to take a look at Soul Knife. Level 1 dip gives something stronger than a feat.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd probably allow someone multiclassing in to mystic to swap their strong save (Dex, Con) if they don't have wisdom.

 

[Leatherhead]

Actually, this was the one thing that stuck out at me that I really liked.

In exchange for not getting any spell/discipline power at the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level... they get to concentrate on several things at once-- all of them at 5th level of power or less. Which... because of the fact they now get to create all these abilities from scratch, allows them to work out beforehand just what kinds of combinations of multiple-concentration effects a character could have going at one time. And even if WotC doesn't do that intensive legwork themselves... I'm fairly certain the UA playerbase and their NDA'd alpha-testers will.

This isn't like giving the existing spellcasting classes the ability to concentrate on multiple spells, because those have a much wider variety of spells to choose from, and 9 entire levels of them. So yes, giving them the ability to concentrate on two at the same time (while also slinging 6th through 9th level spells around) could be difficult. But the Mystic? The one who doesn't get to have high-level power? The multiple concentrations of the small pool of concentratible disciplines can probably be balanced out much more effectively and not overpower the class.

I don't agree with this at all. Half-Casters also have to be held in check with Concentration limits. Add while there are only 40 disciplines, each discipline is the equivalent of a cantrip plus 3 to 7 different spells. That's effectively a bigger pool of picks than a Druid,who has with approximately 120~ non-cantrip spells. Heck, a level 20 mystic even knows a potential minimum of 30 different psudo-spells (except the soul knife who's potential minimum is 24, and of course this ignores the reality that they will have to end up with more due to what actual disciplines exist) while the level 20 sorcerer knows 15 actual spells. Which means mystics aren't anywhere near as limited in scope as this would imply.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The Immortal could be fixed by giving them martial weapons, and replacing the Con mod to AC with Int on Immortal Durability.

I know that thematically they may want Con to be the important ability score with that, but there also should be that Mind Over Matter for a subclass that's part of the Mystic.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't agree with this at all. Half-Casters also have to be held in check with Concentration limits. Add while there are only 40 disciplines, each discipline is the equivalent of a cantrip plus 3 to 7 different spells. That's effectively a bigger pool of picks than a Druid,who has with approximately 120~ non-cantrip spells. Heck, a level 20 mystic even knows a potential minimum of 30 different psudo-spells (except the soul knife who's potential minimum is 24, and of course this ignores the reality that they will have to end up with more due to what actual disciplines exist) while the level 20 sorcerer knows 15 actual spells. Which means mystics aren't anywhere near as limited in scope as this would imply.

They are a bit limited in theme. Some of those powers are strict upgrades of others in the same list. Some powers are overridden by Order abilities. Some powers don't scale well.

That, and the Sorcerer is notorious for having too few spells. It's not a fair comparison.

And, psychic focus doesn't always track with cantrips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leatherhead]

Some of those powers are strict upgrades of others in the same list. Some powers are overridden by Order abilities. Some powers don't scale well.

The same could be said of some spells. I mean, obviously disciplines and spells have differences, most notably the spell slot system VS the psy point system. But they are closer to each other than any other mechanics would be to either of them, and close enough to have meaningful comparisons.

And, psychic focus doesn't always track with cantrips.

Some of them are head and shoulders better, some of them are only bit more potent than Friends, a few are worse than any cantrip. Again, they are close enough.

That, and the Sorcerer is notorious for having too few spells. It's not a fair comparison.

Fair enough:
The Warlock also knows 15 normal spells, an additional 5 from Mystic Arcanum, and 8 invocations. That's approximately 28 or so (but not really due to the nature of some invocations), still less options than a normal Mystic.

 

[Lanliss]

The same could be said of some spells. I mean, obviously disciplines and spells have differences, most notably the spell slot system VS the psy point system. But they are closer to each other than any other mechanics would be to either of them, and close enough to have meaningful comparisons.

Some of them are head and shoulders better, some of them are only bit more potent than Friends, a few are worse than any cantrip. Again, they are close enough.


Fair enough:
The Warlock also knows 15 normal spells, an additional 5 from Mystic Arcanum, and 8 invocations. That's approximately 28 or so (but not really due to the nature of some invocations), still less options than a normal Mystic.

I would be interested in seeign a quality examination, rather than quantity. maybe something like collective Spell levels known, in comparison to the power level of Disciplines. For example, adding together all of the wizards various spells slots at level 20 gives a total of 89 spell slots. Adding Arcane recovery on a short rest makes it 99. Warlock, at level 20, gets 4 5th level slots per short rest, which translates to 60 per long rest. Adding in mystic arcanum gives 93 slots.

Of course, to do this would require an in depth analysis of every discipline, and the relative spell level (based on capability, not cost) of all of the moving parts. As long as it works out into the area of 85-105 total slots, it should be within the balance boundaries. I think...

 

[vpuigdoller]

Counterspell wouldn't work because a wizard/sorc casting it would have no clue that a psi 'spell' was being manifested (no V/S/M). It would be good to have a method of utilizing Dispel Magic and the like, though.

from sage advice:
"So now Counterspell wouldn’t work against a psionic effect but Antimagic Field would work?
[MENTION=21964]Stone[/MENTION]mill1985So now Counterspell wouldn’t work against a psionic effect, unless it reproduces a spell, but Antimagic Field would work? Yep.

— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) March 14, 2017"

 

[Xeviat]

The same could be said of some spells. I mean, obviously disciplines and spells have differences, most notably the spell slot system VS the psy point system. But they are closer to each other than any other mechanics would be to either of them, and close enough to have meaningful comparisons.

Some of them are head and shoulders better, some of them are only bit more potent than Friends, a few are worse than any cantrip. Again, they are close enough.


Fair enough:
The Warlock also knows 15 normal spells, an additional 5 from Mystic Arcanum, and 8 invocations. That's approximately 28 or so (but not really due to the nature of some invocations), still less options than a normal Mystic.

But if you learn a spell that's a straight up upgrade of a lower one, you have the option to unlearn the lower one instead of keeping both. You can only unlearn whole disciplines. Having only 8 "choices", but about 4 options per each, seems like a fair trade to me.

The Wizard knows 40 spells at level 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk