Originally posted by snizor:
Edit: Formerly called: A Different Type of Tank. Changed to something that doesn't suggest a type of melee build since this build has little to do with the high AC and high HP values that the preconception of the term "Tank" brings up. Now it's turning into a min-Protoss carrier with constructs as the interceptors.
possible names
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The Borg Cube
Ramiel (Cubeknight)
Tepellin (Cubeknight)
God (questbreaker, peasent name for it)
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I was milling through the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook when I came
across this interestiong tidbit about the Lyre of Building:
Calculations
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(10 mi/hr*5280 ft/mi)/3600 sec/hr= 14.67 ft/sec
14.67 ft/sec*6 sec/round= 88 ft/round
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Now we have a mobile, temporarily indestructible box with a frail, fleshy creature inside. This box blocks line-of-sight/line-of-effect and makes it rather difficult to attack you. However, you can't physically harm anyone through the walls without opening yourself to attack, right?
Wrong!
Enter the Spell Turret (DMG 2). The Spell Turret can be programmed to recognize (and thus ignore) targets by: creature type, creature race, or by specific individual. In addition, the recognition protocols can be reconfigured in 8hrs by someone with Craft Wonderous Item (you). It can be mounted on the outside of your box and is technically a form of trap. This gives our mobile box the ability to hurt people outside without exposing yourself to attack. The trap, unfortunantly, can be attacked and has 200 hp and hardness equal to that of the material that it is mounted in. Assuming that the wall was made of Obdurium and had an augment object spell cast on it (SBG 41), the hardness should be 60 (30*2). Now, some Spell Turret spell suggestions
Level 1 Spell Turret spells
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Level 1 Spell Turret, exterior (cost 1000gp)
Magic Missile (Evocation)
Power Word, Pain (Enchantment)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Necromancy)
Lesser Orb of Acid (Conjuration)
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And some higher level suggestions (thanks to questbreaker for the list)
Spell Turret selections
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lv2-
ice knife (conj)
ray of stupidity (ench)
rainbow beam (evoc)
ironthunder horn? (tran)
lv3-
ice lance (conj)
ray of dizziness (ench)
sound lance (evoc)
spell vulnerability (trans)
lv4-
orb of ____ (conj)
thunderlance (evoc)
enervation (necr)
rainbow pattern (illu)
lv5-
vitrolic sphere (conj)
cyclonic blast (evoc)
miasma of entropy (necr)
earth reaver (tran)
lv6-
acid storm (conj)
chain lightning (evoc)
ray of entropy (necr)
extract water elemental (trans)
lv7-
antimagic ray (abju)
stun ray (conj)
radiant assault (evoc)
glass strike (tran)
lv8-
field of icy razors (evoc)
incendiary cloud (conj)
power word stun (ench)
polymorph any object (tran)
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Also, the creation of construct shock troopers will be useful, and is being integrated into the build. The Helmed/Battle Horror has an intellignece score so it can handle more complex combat situations.
Now, the cost for the box. Note that this is before any discounts due to do-it-yourself spellcasting or similar or increases due to further wall augmentation. Also, it seems that your ss has to be a component, so I chose the basic magic lab (flavor).
Stronghold cost (bare bones)
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Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%=48,000gp
Interior Walls: Wood= No extra cost
Lead-lining: 1000gp
Component: Basic magic lab= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000
Airtight= 7,500gp
Total: 115,500gp
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Now obviously you're going to do some redecorating inside your box, since you really don't care what's in it. Getting rid of the doors and windows might be a good idea once you have access to teleportation effects. Currently working on anti-teleport tactics. If you take the Landlord feat (SBG 10), you can aquire this with the funds from that feat at level 13.
A more deluxe version:
Stronghold cost (deluxe)
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Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%=48,000gp
Interior Walls: Obdurium= 12,000gp
Lead-lining: 1000gp
Component: basic office+Guard Post= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000
Plane-shifting= 25,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 7,500gp
Ethereal Solid= 12,000gp
Magically Treated= 12,000gp
Wonderous Architecture:
Greater Platform of Jaunting= 76,500gp
Hole of Hiding= 3,000gp
Secure Chamber= 60,000gp
Tornado's Eye= 90,000gp
Chamber of Comfort= 7,500gp
Total: 413,500gp
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Further useful magic items include
Magic Items
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Eternal Wand of Explosive Runes 10,900gp
1/day Item of Magnificent Mansion (CL 13) 32,760gp
At-will Lyre of Building 65,000gp
Total: 108,660gp market value
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The Deluxe version features a two-component design. One component functions as the cabin (cockpit) and the other serves to function as a lauching bay for Battle Horror constructs via the Greater Platform of Jaunting (reenter via dimension door SLA). The interior of the bay will feature a beautiful, runic wallpaper of explosive runes along with a dispel magic trap to detonate them when the bay is breached by enemies. To prevent any Battle Horrors from being destroyed, set their Spell Immunity ability to cover explosive runes. In addition, further Spell Turrets provide a further deterrent against intrusion. A few Spell Turrets in the bay should be dedicated to construct-buffing spells (Repair Damage, etc). The Hole of Hiding and the Secure Chamber wonderous architecture should be installed in in the cabin rather than the bay.
The Stronghold should have a Hallow/Unhallow with Dimensional Anchor as a defense against Teleportation effects (only creatures that worship you may enter). The Hole of Hiding and the Secure Chamber wonderous architecture should be installed in in the cabin rather than the bay. Against line of effect spell , such as Mage's Disjunction, the box can be protected by a cohort arcane caster readying an action to cast Teleport Object to deposit a tarp or inch-thick drywall box around the offending caster (blocking LoE, Anti-MDJ tactics discussed further on pages 3-5 of this thread). Against the annoying Sphere of Annihilation, have a bat effigy with a Rod of Cancellation glued to its back with Sovereign Glue (discussed on page 6).
The Tornado's Eye allows for the destruction of buildings (something that Spell Turrets can't do).
Now on to possible discounts
discounts
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Free labor: 30% off
Location: -12% off (Lawless area in vunerable terrian)
Self-Item Creation:62.5% ((100-25)/2)off on Mobility forms and Wall augmentations
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The current recommendation is to be a Psion with Leadership and Landlord feats so that the main character can use the old Mindswitch+Polymorph any Object trick to make yourself your stronghold. An artificer cohort is reccomended for Magic Item Creation.
Sample Artificer cohort
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Name: Lazy Gear
Race: Warforged
Build: Artificer 20
Feats:
1. (Scribe Scroll), Extend Spell
2. (Brew Potion)
3. (Craft Wonderous Item), Persistant Spell
4.(Extraordinary Artisan)
5. (Craft Magic Arms and Armor)
6. free
7. (Craft Wand)
8.( Carft Construct)
9. (Craft Rod), Landlord
12. (Craft Staff), (Legendary Artisan), free
14. (Forge Ring)
15.free
16.(Extra Rings)
Racial Sub levels:
1. Warforged Artificer
4. Warforged Artificer
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The Hardening Infusion/spell will help protect you Spell Turrets (cheesing UMD and a Staff of Hardening for CL increases is ideal, but not essential). Also, the artificer can create constructs to supplement the Spell Turret defenses. NEVER use golems for this purpose due to the difficulties presented by their Immunity to Magic (its more of a curse than a blessing, especially when you want to buff them with a fly spell or similar).
Construct-wise:The Helmed/Battle Horror (LEoF) is a good choice. Inteligence, Immunity to three spells of your choice upon creation, air walk, and SLA's for the Battle Horror (MM at will, blink, and DD).
Comments/suggestions for improvement welcome.
Edit: A list of things that still need to be incorperated.
things
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Construct buffing spell turrets-need to chose spells (Saracoth)
Larger scale version
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Originally posted by Zenzei:
Heh, this is pretty cool.
Originally posted by snizor:
I added a deluxe version of the stronghold for plane-shifty goodness.
Originally posted by commx:
Ah, that looks nice, but I seem to remember a small clause in the Lyre of Building, stating that it can only do that once per day. So you would need 48 Lyres of Building for this to work all day. (And a Warforged follower or two to play those all day long.)
Originally posted by snizor:
However, 48 lyres of building are obtainable. Assuming an Artificer with Extraordinary Artisan feat: cost to create= 4,875gp *48 lyres= 234,000gp to craft them. Seeing how the stronghold funds are given as bonus funds from Landlord, this is actually not that bad. Leadership for Warforged followers is never a bad idea either.
Alternatively, a custom-made lyre of building with unlimited use/day using the magic item creation guidelines would be possible.
Edit: Question, what spells do people recommend for the spell turret?
Originally posted by snizor:
Have added a sample artificer build to my original post. Also, another way of indirectly affecting the world around the box is via crafted constructs. Still need to come up with ideal spells for the Spell Turret though
Originally posted by snakeman830:
Magic Missle is always good. You never have to worry about missing. That says a lot since I'm sure the spell turret has a crappy attack bonus (I've never seen the DMG2).
If you want more power, perhaps Prismatic Ray (Complete Arcane) or Energy Drain?
Originally posted by snizor:
Basically:
4 spells in.
All must be of the same level/same list.
All must be from different schools.
Cast one spell per round (predetermined order at time of creation)
every 5th round, repairs itself. Then restarts cyle again.
Hope this summery helps anyone (and you're right, their is no Att Bonus listed for spell purpuses, so defauld would most likely be 0)
Edit: Construct-wise, the original post now recommends the Helmed/Battle Horror from Lost Empires of Faerun. (Barring effigy cheese, of course). Currently need to figure out the cost of putting a 1-way teleportation effect within the box so that Horrors can get out. Also need an effective way of getting them in without leaving Lazy Gear vunerable (no doors, probably magic item based). Though on the plus side, Horrors have an Int score, making commanding them far easier (complex orders).
Edit: Platform of Jaunting (SBG) should get them out. Works as a dimension door spell and only cost 14,000gp. Takes up a 10*10 area unfortunantly. The more I examine this, the more the flying box is starting to resemble a mini-Protoss Carrier (with Battle Horrors as the inteceptors). Just need to find a magic item to let them back in.
The more expensive version of the platform would allow for travel anywhere on the plane.
Edit 3: By the wording of the stronghold cost determining section, Wonderous architecture costs come out of Landlord funds, so the Greater platform of jaunting is actually perfectly affordable, since it comes from bonus funds that can't be used for anything non-stronghold related. Max of 800,000 bonus gp for stronghold at level 20. Time to load up on wonderous architecture/wall augmentations since having more than one box is cost prohibitive due to armaments/constructs.
Originally posted by snizor:
Question: Can traps for you stronghold be charged to Landlord funds (traps are mentioned in the Stronghold Components chapter)? If so, it would pay for the Spell Turrets.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Just use the normal trap crafting rules. Make a magic trap of magic missile at CL1 for d4+1 damage/turn, unblockable. IIRC, it's 500 gp, 40 XP to craft. At that price, you can afford to put on several, and fry your opponents with as many attacks as you want. Or put on a bunch of acid splashes for half the price, which give d3 damage each, but aren't unblockable. If you're fighting zombies, disrupt undead gives d6 damage each.
Add on some traps of mending or whatever to cure the other traps.
Since these spells are triggered by alarm, any party member nearing the tank only has to whisper the command word to make themselves not targets.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I can't seem to find my SBGB right now, and although I don't recall any, I have to ask: were there rules for strongholds for non-Medium sized creatures?
IIRC, a stronghold space was something like 20 feet by 20 feet, though some rooms were fractions of a space. With a diminutive or perhaps even a fine occupant in a similarly downscaled stronghold, perhaps it could even fit within a dungeon without having to burrow through it.
Be sure your shiny obdurium ship's magic missile cannons make little laser noises and your UFO will be the cutest little powder room of doom ever seen.
BTW, a level one/CL1 spell turret would also cost 500 GP and 40 XP. You'd have to mix in other spells, but it gets a bit of self-healing as well. Also, possibly heighten spell (or even metamagic feats in general) could be used to help circumvent the "spells must be the same level" requirement of a turrett.
Turrets have 120' truesight and reprogrammability to boot, which may be more useful at times (say, visiting town). And possibly a degree of intelligence, as an example turret states it uses stoneskin on an animal it summoned in the previous round. (For now I'll ignore the fact that stoneskin is a touch range spell, and that its 250 GP material component didn't bump the cost to create that example turret by so much as a copper).
Then again, the rules state the turret targets the closest unrecognized creature, and I'm prone to ignoring that particular example turret as a result.
Anyway, not saying turrets are strictly better, but they're not necessarily worse.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Wow, spell turrets are that cheap? I was thinking they weren't as ridiculously broken as the rest of the trap-making rules.
Spell turrets of buffs would be great in a good-aligned temple. Lemme think of what to give them... Cure minor wounds, virtue, resistance, guidance. Help out all those peasants.
Or, alternatively, create water, detect poison, purify food/drink, mending
Originally posted by snizor:
As for traps that repair other traps, use the Repair Damage line from Spell Compendium.
saracoth: Their are no rules for scaling down the component size from what I can tell. The smallest component is 0.5 storage spaces. The only problem is that the Platform that teleports out of the box is 10*10 ft, and storing multiple medium-sized constructs for launch would be difficult. However, a smaller component (as you pointed out), has its uses. Metamagic is something i'm going to have to look into.
SS are 20*20*10ft
Thanks for the replies!
Edit: One problem with magic missile, Spell Resistance. Also, anyone know of an effective way of getting the Battle Horrors back inside without some kind of 2-way transport (can already get them out of the ship, but getting them back in again is proving to be a pain)?
Originally posted by snizor:
Sorry!
Intended to edit previous post, but accidently hit the quote button. Deleated quote.
Using the 20*20*10ft dimensions, we get 64 valid turret slots (assuming that each turret takes a 5ft*5ft space).
(4*4)+(4*4)+ 4(4*2)= 64 (units are 5ft increments). Of course, firing arcs will have to be taken into account with design.
Originally posted by commx:
Well, there's always Power Word Pain to finish off the weaker ones, and judging by their intelligence, a Spell Turret should be smart enough not to bother aiming it at the powerful baddies. Create Trap is also interesting, conjuring up a 20ft. pit below the enemy is always fun.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
WOW this is awesome
Originally posted by snizor:
Magic Missile-Evocation
Create Trap-Conjuration(?)
three spells down. Will keep searching for effective spells.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think that the Landlord feat should pay for the traps. If that is the case, we can probably afford to Spell Turret higher level spells. Their are only 64 turret slots, after all. 500gp is the creation price, so 1000gp should be the cost of having someone else make it (not sure, seems about right though), thus 64 1st lvl Spell Turrets only cost 64,000gp from landlord. I haven't even spent half of the 800,000gp budget from landlord, so their should be plenty of gold to place higher level Turrets.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Originally posted by eRaz0r:
Hmm - range might be a problem though :/ (laughs at self) - Reach Spell might be good for that
Ohh - Reach Spell + Bestow Curse... higher level, but hey, if we're talking some 64 turret placements, it might be nice to have *some* higher level turrets.
Originally posted by gryftir:
Having the horrors go out leaves spaces for people to go in. Nor do they have to teleport, they could simply pass through the walls with the right spell. Plus technically there are rules for squeezing people into the same space.
I wonder if there is some way to exchange places between the horrors and something... maybe use transposition spells, and animated blocks of metal, which are under the effect of the lyre. That would prevent empty spaces when the horrors left.
Plus it might be possible to remove the lyre's effect. That's something that should be watched out for.
Originally posted by snizor:
You're right that their are ways to remove the lyre's effect, though lack of line of sight/line of effect make it difficult. Dead Magic zone, off the top of my head.
eRazOr: Thanks for the suggestions! don't have much time now to digest them properly, but should be rather easy to implement.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Yay, found me book!
As for the construct shock troopers, how about using two sections, then? The constructs could be stored inside a "less secure" launch bay which they can more easily enter and exit. Plus, it's an opportunity to plug anyone foolish enough to enter the bay with even more spell turrets. From outside, they're directly vulnerable to maybe three surfaces. Inside, they've got at least five to contend with.
We could either split the single stronghold space (a basic office plus a guard post still costs 500 GP, though we'd have to shell out an extra 12,000 GP for the interior obdurium wall) or, if someone has money to blow, double up and go to two spaces, for a 40 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet brick of awesome.
Assuming we split the one space (because doubling up on the mobility and other enhancements will drain your pockets fast), we gain a hostile 10'x20'x10' zone. If we cover all but a 10'x10' door/archway, the exterior could still have up to 4+8+8+8+16+16=60 turrets if we limit ourselves to one of these diminutive things per five foot square. (Someone could be targeted by up to 32 at once.) The bay itself could have 0+4+8+8+8+8=36 more. (All of which can attack one target.) And that's still only 96,000 GP worth of purchased level one turrets
If turrets can be programmed to "attack only x" instead of "ignore only x" the constructs (or whatever other guardians) could be continually buffed/repaired within the bay. Alternately, the turrets should be able to power an Energy Transformation Field (within the bay, anyway; not sure whether the effect would follow you if you cast it outside). Casting an ETF costs 5000 GP and 250 XP.
My next question, then, is how do we keep others from simply joining you via teleportation effects? The ethereal solid augmentation helps on some fronts, but a dimensional lock spell seems a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would help with phase door, though. Can the place be completely (not necessarily permanently) secured once you've entered? And as snizor said, no line of sight or line of effect makes it hard for your innermost defenses to be overcome.
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
Originally posted by commx:
Oh, I know now. We need to get ourselves a two-way portal. (Also from the same book, I think.) Which only works once per day in each direction and will only activate with the correct key. Then put an auto-resetting dimensional lock trap on the space you will be standing/siting on. Only one person (you) can enter the place each day, and while you're in it, all teleportation is stopped.
This does require dimensional lock or some similar spell being able to affect an area. Otherwise we need something else...
Originally posted by snizor:
) in the ceiling. However, the splitting into two sections idea may still be useful (though keeping it to 1 ss total would be paramount due to the expensive costs of maneuverability) and the extra 12,000gp is preaty much chump change at this point.
As for interior Stell Turret construct buffs, just program them to ignore all creature types except constructs (perfectly doable). Of course, we do also have an Artificer inside for such a purpuse. The Energy Transformation Field trick looks sick though (use Spell Turrets to power it) with the right spell. Of course the Energy Transformation Field tactic would necessitate the two section design you mentioned earlier so that the door between the rooms could be shut (blocking the spread from entering the main area) and would remove the possibility of offensive Turrets in the bay and teleportatin pads.
Dimension Lock, unfortunantly, would prevent the constructs from being deployed via the Greater platform of Jaunting and I don't plan on having any door between the inside and outside world. Pure teleportation effects to get in or out (I still need to find a magic item to bring the constructs back in).
Edit: Commx may have provided a solution. Was still writing this post when I saw his reply.
Edit: Will add the two-section design to the original post for the deluxe version (the basic box is meant to be, well, basic). I'm currently holding off on radical changes until the various kinks in the idea (defenses against teleportation, etc...) are worked out.
Edit: Nevermind to getting the constructs back in, Battle Horrors have dimension door as an SLA 1/day which should be enough to get them in for Persistant Buffificer action.
Originally posted by ronyon:
I have been inspired by your build!
I wouldnt go as far, since I would want to use it in play, but I love the notion!
I was expecting a Familiar Carrier sized for a medium sized Familiar, but this is better.
I would suggest a piece of Wondrous Architecture that casts Word of Recall,as a retrieval method.
I also like an Item of Wind Walk, for high speed deployment and survivable scouting.Better in the great out doors than in dungeons, but still.
Apply Word of Recall and Wind Walk, Dimension door out, zip around w/Wind Walk,engage targets, use Word of Recall for retrieval.
An Item of Mage’s Magnificent Mansion would solve a lot of problems, of food/and non combat space.
I plan on using one in my T.A.R.D.I.S-ish imitator of your box.39 ten foot cubes is plenty of space.7 x 13 x 1 000 = 91 000. Too much?
Alternatively a properly designed Item of Binding:Minimus Containment could Give you a Bottled City of Krypton.
Originally posted by snakeman830:
Random idea.
Put Explosive Runes practically covering the interior of the fortress. That's right, the interior. And build a Dispel magic (5th caster level) trap to target them.
If, in the event enemies have gotten inside your fortress, and are now overpowering you, activate the trap (make sure it has a delay) and retreat to your Rope Trick. Chances are, they'll be either dead or much weaker after that's done. Your stronghold will still be intact (thank you lyre), and your opponents will be easier to take down.
Plus, it's cool.
Originally posted by snizor:
The mage's magnificent mansion item sounds fine and does gives some room for a more luxurious lifestyle. I may have to borrow your idea.
Unfortunantly, the Binding spell only affects creatures (so no mini-city
).
Wind walk would be useless in my version (since the Horrors already have an airwalk effect and Battle Horrors have dimension door), but doesn't look that bad at all.
Enjoy the flying box!
Edit: snakeman830: Nice idea! Will probably incorperate it at some point. Seems I'm getting more and more of these, so I need to make a list in the original post.
Originally posted by ronyon:
The container that you would bind into would be a fully furnished city/state a mini Deathstar if you will.
Everything imaginable would be included,and a full staff of professionals would be bound inside.Any thing that was forgotten could be built.
The Binding vessel itself would have to made via Fabricate.
It works because Minimus Containment doesnt prevent the target(s) from using any of its abilities, it just binds them inside the "jar".
Hey, I know this is a fluff question, but what will your Box look like?
Originally posted by snizor:
I haven't given much though to the look of the Box yet since their are still mechanical aspects to address. Perhaps make it look like a piece of cheese? I even considered making it look like a Tetris piece and having a few of them commanded by cohort/followers so that I can ask the druid to to join me for a game.
Originally posted by snizor:
Have added a section for spell turret spells in the original post. Still need help with interior buffing turrets and higher level exterior turrets.
Looks like the Dimension Lock problem is solved as long as the effect is confinet to the cabin only (leaving the bay unaffected due to lack of Line-of-Effect).
For the Explosive Rune wallpaper, I'll probably just craft an Eternal Wand (10,900gp on the open marked. Cheaper though item creation).
Originally posted by questbreaker:
for the constructs:
instead of deploying them in and out of the box, cant you just have an open platform (like a hangar) hanging off the bottom of the stronghold? they can get on and off of it by conventional means, and require less magic and cost to do so. alternatively, they can just stand there and fire at your enemies if its unsafe for them to move about...
sure, they will be less protected, but they are constructs. build more when they are destroyed.
Originally posted by think0028:
Barbarian: "I ready an action to charge the ramp!"
Originally posted by questbreaker:
well if you are low enough to the ground (assuming a non-flying barbarian) for a barbarian to charge your platform, then that is your fault. plus, if your constructs can wield reach weapons, then more than likely the barbarian is going to be charging through not a small number of AoO's.
alternatively, you could have little handles on the bottom (or back or side like a trash truck) for your constructs to hang on to, and shoot their magic missiles with the other hand. like on MechAssault!
Originally posted by snizor:
Edit: Alternate handles on the outside sound useful. The main reason for bringing them inside is for buffing via infusions or Spell Turrets. The ability of the constructs to take advantage of the box's movement is very useful (I have GOT to find a better name for this contraption). Assume the handles added.
Originally posted by questbreaker:
On a more serious note, you could call it a megazord; that is assuming you can get the other PC's in the party to make their own versions of it and you could have them get combined in some way any time an enemy cast 'enlarge person' on themselves...
Originally posted by snizor:
Similar to the old fusion-lich concept (206 Demi-liches connected to one another to form a human skeleton).
Sovereign glue with an effective Universal Solvent dispenser would make them "stick" together.
Having peasents call it God is probably more realistic though...
Edit: Came up with an idea, the Borg Cube (I know that 20*20*10 isn't technically a cube, but the feeling invoked by the box is similar. Heck, it even has its own drones).
Originally posted by questbreaker:
so how fast could this thing destroy towns of various sizes, with disintegrate rays and magic missiles and such?
also if it had turrets that shot out 'soften earth and stone' (prehaps needing a 'create water' before that to get WET earth) you could just sink an entire town, given enough time. but that is hardly OPTIMAL.
Originally posted by snizor:
This is the CO boards. Besides, a series of TV shows that has been going off and on for 30 years is hardly the most nerdy thing on these boards.
As for how lond it would take to destroy a city, it would depend on the # of disintegrate rays per round. Spell Turrets are not optimal for this endeavor (seeing as they target creatures, not landmarks
) so disintegrate cannons would require custom magic items. A command-word activated disintegrate cannon slotless costs 237,600gp on the open marked (minimum caster level). Command-word is supplied by the drones.
Their has GOT to be a better way of leveling towns than this.
Edit: Perhaps a Tornado's Eye (creates Tornado-level winds around the stronghold), originally in SBG, but reprinted in Draconomicon would help.
A cheaper, but weaker, option is the Cloudgathering orb.
Originally posted by questbreaker:
sounds like a cool and climactic way to move your Happy Meal of Doom around, surrounded by a tornado. plus, everyone will blame those dastardly druids!
now exactly how tall is this tornado?
Originally posted by snizor:
Originally posted by questbreaker:
so at what level could i afford an intermediate version of this box, assuming the landlord and leadership feats?
Edit: Formerly called: A Different Type of Tank. Changed to something that doesn't suggest a type of melee build since this build has little to do with the high AC and high HP values that the preconception of the term "Tank" brings up. Now it's turning into a min-Protoss carrier with constructs as the interceptors.
possible names
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The Borg Cube
Ramiel (Cubeknight)
Tepellin (Cubeknight)
God (questbreaker, peasent name for it)
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I was milling through the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook when I came
across this interestiong tidbit about the Lyre of Building:
Interesting, but it doesn't protect you specifically. However, the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook (SBG) also includes pricing for giving a stronghold movement. The max movement speed that can be given to a Stronghold is 10 miles-per-hour, which converts to 88 ft/round.
Calculations
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(10 mi/hr*5280 ft/mi)/3600 sec/hr= 14.67 ft/sec
14.67 ft/sec*6 sec/round= 88 ft/round
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Now we have a mobile, temporarily indestructible box with a frail, fleshy creature inside. This box blocks line-of-sight/line-of-effect and makes it rather difficult to attack you. However, you can't physically harm anyone through the walls without opening yourself to attack, right?
Wrong!
Enter the Spell Turret (DMG 2). The Spell Turret can be programmed to recognize (and thus ignore) targets by: creature type, creature race, or by specific individual. In addition, the recognition protocols can be reconfigured in 8hrs by someone with Craft Wonderous Item (you). It can be mounted on the outside of your box and is technically a form of trap. This gives our mobile box the ability to hurt people outside without exposing yourself to attack. The trap, unfortunantly, can be attacked and has 200 hp and hardness equal to that of the material that it is mounted in. Assuming that the wall was made of Obdurium and had an augment object spell cast on it (SBG 41), the hardness should be 60 (30*2). Now, some Spell Turret spell suggestions
Level 1 Spell Turret spells
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Level 1 Spell Turret, exterior (cost 1000gp)
Magic Missile (Evocation)
Power Word, Pain (Enchantment)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Necromancy)
Lesser Orb of Acid (Conjuration)
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And some higher level suggestions (thanks to questbreaker for the list)
Spell Turret selections
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lv2-
ice knife (conj)
ray of stupidity (ench)
rainbow beam (evoc)
ironthunder horn? (tran)
lv3-
ice lance (conj)
ray of dizziness (ench)
sound lance (evoc)
spell vulnerability (trans)
lv4-
orb of ____ (conj)
thunderlance (evoc)
enervation (necr)
rainbow pattern (illu)
lv5-
vitrolic sphere (conj)
cyclonic blast (evoc)
miasma of entropy (necr)
earth reaver (tran)
lv6-
acid storm (conj)
chain lightning (evoc)
ray of entropy (necr)
extract water elemental (trans)
lv7-
antimagic ray (abju)
stun ray (conj)
radiant assault (evoc)
glass strike (tran)
lv8-
field of icy razors (evoc)
incendiary cloud (conj)
power word stun (ench)
polymorph any object (tran)
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Also, the creation of construct shock troopers will be useful, and is being integrated into the build. The Helmed/Battle Horror has an intellignece score so it can handle more complex combat situations.
Now, the cost for the box. Note that this is before any discounts due to do-it-yourself spellcasting or similar or increases due to further wall augmentation. Also, it seems that your ss has to be a component, so I chose the basic magic lab (flavor).
Stronghold cost (bare bones)
[sblock]
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%=48,000gp
Interior Walls: Wood= No extra cost
Lead-lining: 1000gp
Component: Basic magic lab= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000
Airtight= 7,500gp
Total: 115,500gp
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Now obviously you're going to do some redecorating inside your box, since you really don't care what's in it. Getting rid of the doors and windows might be a good idea once you have access to teleportation effects. Currently working on anti-teleport tactics. If you take the Landlord feat (SBG 10), you can aquire this with the funds from that feat at level 13.
A more deluxe version:
Stronghold cost (deluxe)
[sblock]
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%=48,000gp
Interior Walls: Obdurium= 12,000gp
Lead-lining: 1000gp
Component: basic office+Guard Post= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000
Plane-shifting= 25,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 7,500gp
Ethereal Solid= 12,000gp
Magically Treated= 12,000gp
Wonderous Architecture:
Greater Platform of Jaunting= 76,500gp
Hole of Hiding= 3,000gp
Secure Chamber= 60,000gp
Tornado's Eye= 90,000gp
Chamber of Comfort= 7,500gp
Total: 413,500gp
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Further useful magic items include
Magic Items
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Eternal Wand of Explosive Runes 10,900gp
1/day Item of Magnificent Mansion (CL 13) 32,760gp
At-will Lyre of Building 65,000gp
Total: 108,660gp market value
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The Deluxe version features a two-component design. One component functions as the cabin (cockpit) and the other serves to function as a lauching bay for Battle Horror constructs via the Greater Platform of Jaunting (reenter via dimension door SLA). The interior of the bay will feature a beautiful, runic wallpaper of explosive runes along with a dispel magic trap to detonate them when the bay is breached by enemies. To prevent any Battle Horrors from being destroyed, set their Spell Immunity ability to cover explosive runes. In addition, further Spell Turrets provide a further deterrent against intrusion. A few Spell Turrets in the bay should be dedicated to construct-buffing spells (Repair Damage, etc). The Hole of Hiding and the Secure Chamber wonderous architecture should be installed in in the cabin rather than the bay.
The Stronghold should have a Hallow/Unhallow with Dimensional Anchor as a defense against Teleportation effects (only creatures that worship you may enter). The Hole of Hiding and the Secure Chamber wonderous architecture should be installed in in the cabin rather than the bay. Against line of effect spell , such as Mage's Disjunction, the box can be protected by a cohort arcane caster readying an action to cast Teleport Object to deposit a tarp or inch-thick drywall box around the offending caster (blocking LoE, Anti-MDJ tactics discussed further on pages 3-5 of this thread). Against the annoying Sphere of Annihilation, have a bat effigy with a Rod of Cancellation glued to its back with Sovereign Glue (discussed on page 6).
The Tornado's Eye allows for the destruction of buildings (something that Spell Turrets can't do).
Now on to possible discounts
discounts
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Free labor: 30% off
Location: -12% off (Lawless area in vunerable terrian)
Self-Item Creation:62.5% ((100-25)/2)off on Mobility forms and Wall augmentations
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The current recommendation is to be a Psion with Leadership and Landlord feats so that the main character can use the old Mindswitch+Polymorph any Object trick to make yourself your stronghold. An artificer cohort is reccomended for Magic Item Creation.
Sample Artificer cohort
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Name: Lazy Gear
Race: Warforged
Build: Artificer 20
Feats:
1. (Scribe Scroll), Extend Spell
2. (Brew Potion)
3. (Craft Wonderous Item), Persistant Spell
4.(Extraordinary Artisan)
5. (Craft Magic Arms and Armor)
6. free
7. (Craft Wand)
8.( Carft Construct)
9. (Craft Rod), Landlord
12. (Craft Staff), (Legendary Artisan), free
14. (Forge Ring)
15.free
16.(Extra Rings)
Racial Sub levels:
1. Warforged Artificer
4. Warforged Artificer
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The Hardening Infusion/spell will help protect you Spell Turrets (cheesing UMD and a Staff of Hardening for CL increases is ideal, but not essential). Also, the artificer can create constructs to supplement the Spell Turret defenses. NEVER use golems for this purpose due to the difficulties presented by their Immunity to Magic (its more of a curse than a blessing, especially when you want to buff them with a fly spell or similar).
Construct-wise:The Helmed/Battle Horror (LEoF) is a good choice. Inteligence, Immunity to three spells of your choice upon creation, air walk, and SLA's for the Battle Horror (MM at will, blink, and DD).
Comments/suggestions for improvement welcome.
Edit: A list of things that still need to be incorperated.
things
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Construct buffing spell turrets-need to chose spells (Saracoth)
Larger scale version
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Originally posted by Zenzei:
Heh, this is pretty cool.
Originally posted by snizor:
Thanks
I added a deluxe version of the stronghold for plane-shifty goodness.
Originally posted by commx:
Ah, that looks nice, but I seem to remember a small clause in the Lyre of Building, stating that it can only do that once per day. So you would need 48 Lyres of Building for this to work all day. (And a Warforged follower or two to play those all day long.)
Originally posted by snizor:
I wasn't really planning on having the protection all day, but only for adventuring time. During downtime, using the burrowing ability or the submersing ability should be adequete to prevent you from being disturbed (keep a lyre or 2 backup, just in case some earth elemental finds you).
However, 48 lyres of building are obtainable. Assuming an Artificer with Extraordinary Artisan feat: cost to create= 4,875gp *48 lyres= 234,000gp to craft them. Seeing how the stronghold funds are given as bonus funds from Landlord, this is actually not that bad. Leadership for Warforged followers is never a bad idea either.
Alternatively, a custom-made lyre of building with unlimited use/day using the magic item creation guidelines would be possible.
Edit: Question, what spells do people recommend for the spell turret?
Originally posted by snizor:
Have added a sample artificer build to my original post. Also, another way of indirectly affecting the world around the box is via crafted constructs. Still need to come up with ideal spells for the Spell Turret though
Originally posted by snakeman830:
Magic Missle is always good. You never have to worry about missing. That says a lot since I'm sure the spell turret has a crappy attack bonus (I've never seen the DMG2).
If you want more power, perhaps Prismatic Ray (Complete Arcane) or Energy Drain?
Originally posted by snizor:
Thanks for the advice, unfortunantly Spell Turrets have some wierd rules for spells.
Basically:
4 spells in.
All must be of the same level/same list.
All must be from different schools.
Cast one spell per round (predetermined order at time of creation)
every 5th round, repairs itself. Then restarts cyle again.
Hope this summery helps anyone (and you're right, their is no Att Bonus listed for spell purpuses, so defauld would most likely be 0)
Edit: Construct-wise, the original post now recommends the Helmed/Battle Horror from Lost Empires of Faerun. (Barring effigy cheese, of course). Currently need to figure out the cost of putting a 1-way teleportation effect within the box so that Horrors can get out. Also need an effective way of getting them in without leaving Lazy Gear vunerable (no doors, probably magic item based). Though on the plus side, Horrors have an Int score, making commanding them far easier (complex orders).
Edit: Platform of Jaunting (SBG) should get them out. Works as a dimension door spell and only cost 14,000gp. Takes up a 10*10 area unfortunantly. The more I examine this, the more the flying box is starting to resemble a mini-Protoss Carrier (with Battle Horrors as the inteceptors). Just need to find a magic item to let them back in.
The more expensive version of the platform would allow for travel anywhere on the plane.
Edit 3: By the wording of the stronghold cost determining section, Wonderous architecture costs come out of Landlord funds, so the Greater platform of jaunting is actually perfectly affordable, since it comes from bonus funds that can't be used for anything non-stronghold related. Max of 800,000 bonus gp for stronghold at level 20. Time to load up on wonderous architecture/wall augmentations since having more than one box is cost prohibitive due to armaments/constructs.
Originally posted by snizor:
Question: Can traps for you stronghold be charged to Landlord funds (traps are mentioned in the Stronghold Components chapter)? If so, it would pay for the Spell Turrets.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Just use the normal trap crafting rules. Make a magic trap of magic missile at CL1 for d4+1 damage/turn, unblockable. IIRC, it's 500 gp, 40 XP to craft. At that price, you can afford to put on several, and fry your opponents with as many attacks as you want. Or put on a bunch of acid splashes for half the price, which give d3 damage each, but aren't unblockable. If you're fighting zombies, disrupt undead gives d6 damage each.
Add on some traps of mending or whatever to cure the other traps.
Since these spells are triggered by alarm, any party member nearing the tank only has to whisper the command word to make themselves not targets.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I can't seem to find my SBGB right now, and although I don't recall any, I have to ask: were there rules for strongholds for non-Medium sized creatures?
IIRC, a stronghold space was something like 20 feet by 20 feet, though some rooms were fractions of a space. With a diminutive or perhaps even a fine occupant in a similarly downscaled stronghold, perhaps it could even fit within a dungeon without having to burrow through it.
Be sure your shiny obdurium ship's magic missile cannons make little laser noises and your UFO will be the cutest little powder room of doom ever seen.
BTW, a level one/CL1 spell turret would also cost 500 GP and 40 XP. You'd have to mix in other spells, but it gets a bit of self-healing as well. Also, possibly heighten spell (or even metamagic feats in general) could be used to help circumvent the "spells must be the same level" requirement of a turrett.
Turrets have 120' truesight and reprogrammability to boot, which may be more useful at times (say, visiting town). And possibly a degree of intelligence, as an example turret states it uses stoneskin on an animal it summoned in the previous round. (For now I'll ignore the fact that stoneskin is a touch range spell, and that its 250 GP material component didn't bump the cost to create that example turret by so much as a copper).
Then again, the rules state the turret targets the closest unrecognized creature, and I'm prone to ignoring that particular example turret as a result.
Anyway, not saying turrets are strictly better, but they're not necessarily worse.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Wow, spell turrets are that cheap? I was thinking they weren't as ridiculously broken as the rest of the trap-making rules.
Spell turrets of buffs would be great in a good-aligned temple. Lemme think of what to give them... Cure minor wounds, virtue, resistance, guidance. Help out all those peasants.
Or, alternatively, create water, detect poison, purify food/drink, mending
Originally posted by snizor:
Mad Linguist:The question isn't so much whether to make use of traps or not. The question is whether I have to pay for them myself or whether the Landlord feat will supply them (thus freeing up wealth-by-level to make Battle Horror drones, which have magic missile at will).The Spell Turret may not be the best way of doing it, it's just the first thing that came to mind. BTW: If by a few, you mean several dozen ( 16 per face, IIRC), then you're correct. However, Spell Turrets specifically state in their description that they use the minimum CL for the spell (slightly less broken, but still abusable). Of course, with several dozen of them, the CL limitation is not so bad.
As for traps that repair other traps, use the Repair Damage line from Spell Compendium.
saracoth: Their are no rules for scaling down the component size from what I can tell. The smallest component is 0.5 storage spaces. The only problem is that the Platform that teleports out of the box is 10*10 ft, and storing multiple medium-sized constructs for launch would be difficult. However, a smaller component (as you pointed out), has its uses. Metamagic is something i'm going to have to look into.
SS are 20*20*10ft
Thanks for the replies!
Edit: One problem with magic missile, Spell Resistance. Also, anyone know of an effective way of getting the Battle Horrors back inside without some kind of 2-way transport (can already get them out of the ship, but getting them back in again is proving to be a pain)?
Originally posted by snizor:
Sorry!
Intended to edit previous post, but accidently hit the quote button. Deleated quote.
Using the 20*20*10ft dimensions, we get 64 valid turret slots (assuming that each turret takes a 5ft*5ft space).
(4*4)+(4*4)+ 4(4*2)= 64 (units are 5ft increments). Of course, firing arcs will have to be taken into account with design.
Originally posted by commx:
Well, there's always Power Word Pain to finish off the weaker ones, and judging by their intelligence, a Spell Turret should be smart enough not to bother aiming it at the powerful baddies. Create Trap is also interesting, conjuring up a 20ft. pit below the enemy is always fun.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
WOW this is awesome
Originally posted by snizor:
Power Word Pain-Enchantment(?)
Magic Missile-Evocation
Create Trap-Conjuration(?)
three spells down. Will keep searching for effective spells.
Thanks!WOW this is awesome
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think that the Landlord feat should pay for the traps. If that is the case, we can probably afford to Spell Turret higher level spells. Their are only 64 turret slots, after all. 500gp is the creation price, so 1000gp should be the cost of having someone else make it (not sure, seems about right though), thus 64 1st lvl Spell Turrets only cost 64,000gp from landlord. I haven't even spent half of the 800,000gp budget from landlord, so their should be plenty of gold to place higher level Turrets.
Originally posted by the_mad_linguist:
Ray of Enfeeblement - Necromancy
Originally posted by eRaz0r:
Or lesser shivering touch. Necromancy and it does Dex DAMAGE and therefore, adds up, compared with Ray of Enfeeblement which only gives a Str Penalty, and therefore doesn't stack.
Hmm - range might be a problem though :/ (laughs at self) - Reach Spell might be good for that
Ohh - Reach Spell + Bestow Curse... higher level, but hey, if we're talking some 64 turret placements, it might be nice to have *some* higher level turrets.
Originally posted by gryftir:
Having the horrors go out leaves spaces for people to go in. Nor do they have to teleport, they could simply pass through the walls with the right spell. Plus technically there are rules for squeezing people into the same space.
I wonder if there is some way to exchange places between the horrors and something... maybe use transposition spells, and animated blocks of metal, which are under the effect of the lyre. That would prevent empty spaces when the horrors left.
Plus it might be possible to remove the lyre's effect. That's something that should be watched out for.
Originally posted by snizor:
I abandoned the whole crowd every space idea, it's a little redundant for most adventures. However, the rules you speak of (for creature same size) refer to out-of-combat movement. The transposition spell idea is interesting though. The Ethereal Solid wall augmentation prevents ethereal intrusion or extrusion.
You're right that their are ways to remove the lyre's effect, though lack of line of sight/line of effect make it difficult. Dead Magic zone, off the top of my head.
eRazOr: Thanks for the suggestions! don't have much time now to digest them properly, but should be rather easy to implement.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Yay, found me book!
As for the construct shock troopers, how about using two sections, then? The constructs could be stored inside a "less secure" launch bay which they can more easily enter and exit. Plus, it's an opportunity to plug anyone foolish enough to enter the bay with even more spell turrets. From outside, they're directly vulnerable to maybe three surfaces. Inside, they've got at least five to contend with.
We could either split the single stronghold space (a basic office plus a guard post still costs 500 GP, though we'd have to shell out an extra 12,000 GP for the interior obdurium wall) or, if someone has money to blow, double up and go to two spaces, for a 40 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet brick of awesome.
Assuming we split the one space (because doubling up on the mobility and other enhancements will drain your pockets fast), we gain a hostile 10'x20'x10' zone. If we cover all but a 10'x10' door/archway, the exterior could still have up to 4+8+8+8+16+16=60 turrets if we limit ourselves to one of these diminutive things per five foot square. (Someone could be targeted by up to 32 at once.) The bay itself could have 0+4+8+8+8+8=36 more. (All of which can attack one target.) And that's still only 96,000 GP worth of purchased level one turrets
If turrets can be programmed to "attack only x" instead of "ignore only x" the constructs (or whatever other guardians) could be continually buffed/repaired within the bay. Alternately, the turrets should be able to power an Energy Transformation Field (within the bay, anyway; not sure whether the effect would follow you if you cast it outside). Casting an ETF costs 5000 GP and 250 XP.
My next question, then, is how do we keep others from simply joining you via teleportation effects? The ethereal solid augmentation helps on some fronts, but a dimensional lock spell seems a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would help with phase door, though. Can the place be completely (not necessarily permanently) secured once you've entered? And as snizor said, no line of sight or line of effect makes it hard for your innermost defenses to be overcome.
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
Originally posted by commx:
Oh, I know now. We need to get ourselves a two-way portal. (Also from the same book, I think.) Which only works once per day in each direction and will only activate with the correct key. Then put an auto-resetting dimensional lock trap on the space you will be standing/siting on. Only one person (you) can enter the place each day, and while you're in it, all teleportation is stopped.
This does require dimensional lock or some similar spell being able to affect an area. Otherwise we need something else...
Originally posted by snizor:
About storing the Construct shock troopers, I just realized that that's no longer a problem since we already have a permanent rope trick spell (the hole of hiding that I put in just for kicks now has a useYay, found me book!
As for the construct shock troopers, how about using two sections, then? The constructs could be stored inside a "less secure" launch bay which they can more easily enter and exit. Plus, it's an opportunity to plug anyone foolish enough to enter the bay with even more spell turrets. From outside, they're directly vulnerable to maybe three surfaces. Inside, they've got at least five to contend with.
We could either split the single stronghold space (a basic office plus a guard post still costs 500 GP, though we'd have to shell out an extra 12,000 GP for the interior obdurium wall) or, if someone has money to blow, double up and go to two spaces, for a 40 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet brick of awesome.
Assuming we split the one space (because doubling up on the mobility and other enhancements will drain your pockets fast), we gain a hostile 10'x20'x10' zone. If we cover all but a 10'x10' door/archway, the exterior could still have up to 4+8+8+8+16+16=60 turrets if we limit ourselves to one of these diminutive things per five foot square. (Someone could be targeted by up to 32 at once.) The bay itself could have 0+4+8+8+8+8=36 more. (All of which can attack one target.) And that's still only 96,000 GP worth of purchased level one turrets
If turrets can be programmed to "attack only x" instead of "ignore only x" the constructs (or whatever other guardians) could be continually buffed/repaired within the bay. Alternately, the turrets should be able to power an Energy Transformation Field (within the bay, anyway; not sure whether the effect would follow you if you cast it outside). Casting an ETF costs 5000 GP and 250 XP.
My next question, then, is how do we keep others from simply joining you via teleportation effects? The ethereal solid augmentation helps on some fronts, but a dimensional lock spell seems a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would help with phase door, though. Can the place be completely (not necessarily permanently) secured once you've entered? And as snizor said, no line of sight or line of effect makes it hard for your innermost defenses to be overcome.
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
) in the ceiling. However, the splitting into two sections idea may still be useful (though keeping it to 1 ss total would be paramount due to the expensive costs of maneuverability) and the extra 12,000gp is preaty much chump change at this point. As for interior Stell Turret construct buffs, just program them to ignore all creature types except constructs (perfectly doable). Of course, we do also have an Artificer inside for such a purpuse. The Energy Transformation Field trick looks sick though (use Spell Turrets to power it) with the right spell. Of course the Energy Transformation Field tactic would necessitate the two section design you mentioned earlier so that the door between the rooms could be shut (blocking the spread from entering the main area) and would remove the possibility of offensive Turrets in the bay and teleportatin pads.
Dimension Lock, unfortunantly, would prevent the constructs from being deployed via the Greater platform of Jaunting and I don't plan on having any door between the inside and outside world. Pure teleportation effects to get in or out (I still need to find a magic item to bring the constructs back in).
Edit: Commx may have provided a solution. Was still writing this post when I saw his reply.
Also, the keyed portal can be keyed off Identity. The only problem is that it remains open for a full-round and a 1/day portal doesn't help with the Battle Horrors. May still be useful though.
Edit: Will add the two-section design to the original post for the deluxe version (the basic box is meant to be, well, basic). I'm currently holding off on radical changes until the various kinks in the idea (defenses against teleportation, etc...) are worked out.
Edit: Nevermind to getting the constructs back in, Battle Horrors have dimension door as an SLA 1/day which should be enough to get them in for Persistant Buffificer action.
Originally posted by ronyon:
I have been inspired by your build!
I wouldnt go as far, since I would want to use it in play, but I love the notion!
I was expecting a Familiar Carrier sized for a medium sized Familiar, but this is better.
I would suggest a piece of Wondrous Architecture that casts Word of Recall,as a retrieval method.
I also like an Item of Wind Walk, for high speed deployment and survivable scouting.Better in the great out doors than in dungeons, but still.
Apply Word of Recall and Wind Walk, Dimension door out, zip around w/Wind Walk,engage targets, use Word of Recall for retrieval.
An Item of Mage’s Magnificent Mansion would solve a lot of problems, of food/and non combat space.
I plan on using one in my T.A.R.D.I.S-ish imitator of your box.39 ten foot cubes is plenty of space.7 x 13 x 1 000 = 91 000. Too much?
Alternatively a properly designed Item of Binding:Minimus Containment could Give you a Bottled City of Krypton.
Originally posted by snakeman830:
Random idea.
Put Explosive Runes practically covering the interior of the fortress. That's right, the interior. And build a Dispel magic (5th caster level) trap to target them.
If, in the event enemies have gotten inside your fortress, and are now overpowering you, activate the trap (make sure it has a delay) and retreat to your Rope Trick. Chances are, they'll be either dead or much weaker after that's done. Your stronghold will still be intact (thank you lyre), and your opponents will be easier to take down.
Plus, it's cool.
Originally posted by snizor:
Glad to be of help!
The mage's magnificent mansion item sounds fine and does gives some room for a more luxurious lifestyle. I may have to borrow your idea.
Unfortunantly, the Binding spell only affects creatures (so no mini-city
Wind walk would be useless in my version (since the Horrors already have an airwalk effect and Battle Horrors have dimension door), but doesn't look that bad at all.
Enjoy the flying box!
Edit: snakeman830: Nice idea! Will probably incorperate it at some point. Seems I'm getting more and more of these, so I need to make a list in the original post.
Originally posted by ronyon:
The container that you would bind into would be a fully furnished city/state a mini Deathstar if you will.
Everything imaginable would be included,and a full staff of professionals would be bound inside.Any thing that was forgotten could be built.
The Binding vessel itself would have to made via Fabricate.
It works because Minimus Containment doesnt prevent the target(s) from using any of its abilities, it just binds them inside the "jar".
Hey, I know this is a fluff question, but what will your Box look like?
Originally posted by snizor:
Sorry for misunderstanding. Sounds very cool
I haven't given much though to the look of the Box yet since their are still mechanical aspects to address. Perhaps make it look like a piece of cheese? I even considered making it look like a Tetris piece and having a few of them commanded by cohort/followers so that I can ask the druid to to join me for a game.
Originally posted by snizor:
Have added a section for spell turret spells in the original post. Still need help with interior buffing turrets and higher level exterior turrets.
Looks like the Dimension Lock problem is solved as long as the effect is confinet to the cabin only (leaving the bay unaffected due to lack of Line-of-Effect).
For the Explosive Rune wallpaper, I'll probably just craft an Eternal Wand (10,900gp on the open marked. Cheaper though item creation).
Originally posted by questbreaker:
for the constructs:
instead of deploying them in and out of the box, cant you just have an open platform (like a hangar) hanging off the bottom of the stronghold? they can get on and off of it by conventional means, and require less magic and cost to do so. alternatively, they can just stand there and fire at your enemies if its unsafe for them to move about...
sure, they will be less protected, but they are constructs. build more when they are destroyed.
Originally posted by think0028:
Nuh-uh. Why?
Barbarian: "I ready an action to charge the ramp!"
Originally posted by questbreaker:
well if you are low enough to the ground (assuming a non-flying barbarian) for a barbarian to charge your platform, then that is your fault. plus, if your constructs can wield reach weapons, then more than likely the barbarian is going to be charging through not a small number of AoO's.
alternatively, you could have little handles on the bottom (or back or side like a trash truck) for your constructs to hang on to, and shoot their magic missiles with the other hand. like on MechAssault!
Originally posted by snizor:
Seems someone gets the reason for no old-fashioned doors. As I said in earlier posts, the problem of entrance/exit has been corrected for via Greater Platform of Jaunting (outward) and Dimension Door SLA (Battle Horror, entrance). The Dimensional Lock effect now only applies to the cabin, not the bay. Anyone entering the bay is subject to Dispel Magic trap+ Explosive Rune wallpaper as well as interior spell turret defenses (as well as any constructs in the bay being buffed by other Spell Turrets). The door between the bay and the cabin will of course be heavily secured.
Edit: Alternate handles on the outside sound useful. The main reason for bringing them inside is for buffing via infusions or Spell Turrets. The ability of the constructs to take advantage of the box's movement is very useful (I have GOT to find a better name for this contraption). Assume the handles added.
Originally posted by questbreaker:
A name? how about just having the peasants call it god?
On a more serious note, you could call it a megazord; that is assuming you can get the other PC's in the party to make their own versions of it and you could have them get combined in some way any time an enemy cast 'enlarge person' on themselves...
Originally posted by snizor:
Ahh...
Similar to the old fusion-lich concept (206 Demi-liches connected to one another to form a human skeleton).
Sovereign glue with an effective Universal Solvent dispenser would make them "stick" together.
Having peasents call it God is probably more realistic though...
Edit: Came up with an idea, the Borg Cube (I know that 20*20*10 isn't technically a cube, but the feeling invoked by the box is similar. Heck, it even has its own drones).
Originally posted by questbreaker:
i thought of that too, but i didnt want to sound too nerdy.
so how fast could this thing destroy towns of various sizes, with disintegrate rays and magic missiles and such?
also if it had turrets that shot out 'soften earth and stone' (prehaps needing a 'create water' before that to get WET earth) you could just sink an entire town, given enough time. but that is hardly OPTIMAL.
Originally posted by snizor:
"Didn't want to sound too nerdy"i thought of that too, but i didnt want to sound too nerdy.
so how fast could this thing destroy towns of various sizes, with disintegrate rays and magic missiles and such?
also if it had turrets that shot out 'soften earth and stone' (prehaps needing a 'create water' before that to get WET earth) you could just sink an entire town, given enough time. but that is hardly OPTIMAL.
This is the CO boards. Besides, a series of TV shows that has been going off and on for 30 years is hardly the most nerdy thing on these boards.
As for how lond it would take to destroy a city, it would depend on the # of disintegrate rays per round. Spell Turrets are not optimal for this endeavor (seeing as they target creatures, not landmarks
Their has GOT to be a better way of leveling towns than this.
Edit: Perhaps a Tornado's Eye (creates Tornado-level winds around the stronghold), originally in SBG, but reprinted in Draconomicon would help.
We have a winner!
A cheaper, but weaker, option is the Cloudgathering orb.
Originally posted by questbreaker:
sounds like a cool and climactic way to move your Happy Meal of Doom around, surrounded by a tornado. plus, everyone will blame those dastardly druids!
Originally posted by snizor:
Undefined in the rules.sounds like a cool and climactic way to move your Happy Meal of Doom around, surrounded by a tornado. plus, everyone will blame those dastardly druids!now exactly how tall is this tornado?
Originally posted by questbreaker:
so at what level could i afford an intermediate version of this box, assuming the landlord and leadership feats?
