Lizardfolk = ECL 4?!?!

[Wolfspider]

Yes. Although I was excited about the article at first, I'm starting to become more and more opposed to the ECLs it lists.

 

[Wolfspider]

Shameless bump.

I want to see what people think of my comparison.

 

[CRGreathouse]

First, your comparisons were excellent. Still, though, I don't agree with your conclusion - I'd put lizardfolk at ECL +3.

A lixardfolk Ftr1 isn't a match for a human Ftr4, true, but a lizardfolk Ftr4 is no less powerful than a human Ftr7, IMO.

 

[Guy Fullerton]

Re: A few comparisons

Do you really think that a 1st level lizardfolk fighter is the match for a 5th level human fighter?

No, they are not a "match" for one another, but who cares...

That's not what ECL measures. ECL measures how useful and survivable a PC is in a party of other PCs. ECL does not measure how it would do in a one-on-one combat with another PC.

(Many of your other points were still perfectly valid. I just have a pet peeve when people misinterpret the purpose of ECLs, CRs, and similar 3e mechanics.)

The human will have ... better equipment from being higher level.

No he won't. A 1st-level Lizardfolk Fighter has the same gear as any other 5th-level character.

 

[Wolfspider]

That's not what ECL measures. ECL measures how useful and survivable a PC is in a party of other PCs. ECL does not measure how it would do in a one-on-one combat with another PC.

Sorry...I edited that statement out in the email I sent to Dragon magazine, but I forgot to change it here. I changed "match" to read "equivalent."

No he won't. A 1st-level Lizardfolk Fighter has the same gear as any other 5th-level character.

Really? I wasn't aware of this. Does this mean that a 1st level lizardfolk would be considered to have five character levels when it came to other effects, like healing of subdual damage and some special abilities? Just wondering.

I also think that I've got some pretty good points (aside from what you mentioned that I changed). Can you think of anything else?

I'm curious as to what rationale the author had of giving the lizardfolk a ECL of 4 to begin with....

 

[CRGreathouse]

Really? I wasn't aware of this. Does this mean that a 1st level lizardfolk would be considered to have five character levels when it came to other effects, like healing of subdual damage and some special abilities? Just wondering.

AFAIK, XP and wealth ae baed on ECL and healing, et. al. are based on total HD.

I'm curious as to what rationale the author had of giving the lizardfolk a ECL of 4 to begin with....

Writing for a deadline? Stoned out opf his mind?

 

[Crothian]

Do Lizardfolk and other creatures with bonus HD get skill points, BAB, saves bonuses, and feats as a creature of their type at those HD in addition to their class bonuses??

 

[Wolfspider]

Creatures with bonus hit dice (like lizardfolk and saurials) get starting bonus points according to their creature type (humanoid, for example) and hit dice. They DON'T get four times the beginning level of skill points when they take a 1st level in a class.

Creatures without bonus hit dice (like hobgoblins) receive skill points according to class, just like regular races in the PHB.

 

[reapersaurus]

Wolfspider - GREAT thread.

Couple questions:
1) Where did Half-Dragons get officially changed to +4 ECL?
Did the DMG get trumped in Dragon magazine (which isn't REALLY an official resource, is it?), or is that in the DMG errata (is there any?)

2) If you really want a ridiculous comparison, why don't you do a work-up which compares them to a Hobgoblin's stats...

 

[CRGreathouse]

AFAIK, half-dragons are CR +2, ECL +3 and hobgoblins are CR +0, ECL +1.