Marking via Dragon's breath

[Runestar]

What next? Dragonborn fighters multi-classing into wizard to get multi-target marking capabilities five or so times an encounter?

Umm...this was already touted as possible even before 4e was released. The idea was to have a fighter nab scorching burst as an encounter power (either via half-elf or the wizard multiclass feat), letting him mark everyone in a 3x3 square 1/encounter.

By virtue of his role, the fighter is a melee based character. It makes a certain sense that he can 'mark' adjacent targets because he can interfere with their attacks against targets other than himself and if they move, he is in range of affecting them immediately.

I think the problem here stems from your possibly limiting take of just what a combat challenge entails, which closes your mind to other possible and equally viable interpretations of what it lets you do.

My view on combat challenge is that it involves the fighter keeping a watchful eye on every foe he has attacked. The enemy is aware of this as well, and this causes him to be partly distracted in his attacks. He is mindful that whatever he is doing, the fighter is out there stalking him, waiting for the right moment when his guard is down so he can strike. This makes him instinctively become more cautious in anticipation of an attack from the fighter, which in turn hinders the efficacy with which he can attack other players, because he cannot fully focus on this task. In a way, it is somewhat like an intimidation-based effect.

Normally, this would apply only to foes the fighter threatens as he is a melee PC by default. But I see no reason why he would not be able to mark foes at range, be it via archery (say he multiclassed into a ranger) or magic (wizard attacks). So long as he can make his presence felt on the battlefield, why not?

Thus, I disagree that your interpretation is neither necessarily in the "spirit of the rules" nor "wrought of common sense". Likewise, I do not see anything problematic with this combination, so I feel no need to houserule anything. Let the fighter area-mark by all means. He is a defender - it is what he is supposed to be doing, enticing the foes to want to attack him over anyone else.

 

[Gort]

There are times when I think you have to incur the DM fiat encounter power called, "Common Sense".

I feel this is one of those times.

I agree with Kzach. I find it extremely hard to justify using ranged area attacks like dragon breath to mark enemies. It seems to me just as silly as the paladin tactic of using divine challenge and then running away or hiding.

The rules as written back them up, but it seems awfully stupid.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Unless the fighter can also get adjacent to all those enemies, the mark will have little effect. A -2 area debuff, void if the targets attack the fighter, for one round is not unreasonable as a racial encounter power. And if the fighter IS adjacent to , say, 4 or 5 marked enemies who have a solid reason to hit him, then he's also probably flanked and about to do some heroic bleeding.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I agree with Kzach. I find it extremely hard to justify using ranged area attacks like dragon breath to mark enemies. It seems to me just as silly as the paladin tactic of using divine challenge and then running away or hiding.

The rules as written back them up, but it seems awfully stupid.

Maybe it's your opinions that are the problem and not the rules? Divine challenge absolutely encourages you to run away from your enemy and be out of hitting range. There are far worse implications hidden in the 4th edition rules.

 

[FadedC]

I agree with Kzach. I find it extremely hard to justify using ranged area attacks like dragon breath to mark enemies. It seems to me just as silly as the paladin tactic of using divine challenge and then running away or hiding.

The rules as written back them up, but it seems awfully stupid.

Doesn't really bother me. It's legal by the both the letter and by appearances the intent of the rules. It's not remotely overpowered. And I have no problem imagining that having a somebody breath fire at you could be just as distracting as having them swing a sword at you or throw a javelin at you.

There's a fighter power that lets you mark somebody 25 feet away by flicking blood into their eye (at least that's what the flavor text says). If that's sufficient to mark somebody, then so should breathing fire on them.

 

[Yaezakura]

I don't think "in melee" has anything to do with the Fighter's ability to mark opponents. Heck, the Warlord Paragon Path "Knight Commander" can use a power to mark every enemy within 5 squares--that's a potential 120 enemies marked, and he's not even a marking specialist! But he's every bit as melee-oriented as a Fighter is.

You have to keep in mind that marking is not something unique to Fighters. Marking an enemy simply means you've done something that draws a lot of attention to yourself, making yourself seem more a threat than normal, so the marked foe focuses on you. They think to ignore you is dangerous, so they suffer a penalty attacking anyone else, since they're trying to keep you in their sights. Fighters simply have to skill to capitalize on that mistake by making quick strikes while the enemies' attention is divided, but even then, only on opponents within range of their melee weapon.

Finding awesome synergies is what makes the game fun. The Dragonborn Fighter breathes on the opponents, marking them because, frankly, I'd be scared of the guy who just set half my side on fire then hacked Bob in half with his greatsword within a matter of seconds. Those unfortunate enough to be within melee range are indeed subject to the Dragonborn's full wrath if they ignore him. The rest? if they go after others, they simply suffer the -2 to hit.

Once per encounter, being able to become a BIG threat to those in melee range and a minor one to the rest of the enemies. Powerful? Yes. Too powerful? Hardly.

 

[SadisticFishing]

It does work.

You challenge them by attacking them. Breathing fire challenges them.

Plus, it's not overpowered, either. It's just good.

 

[Kzach]

I think the problem here stems from your possibly limiting take of just what a combat challenge entails, which closes your mind to other possible and equally viable interpretations of what it lets you do.

No. There are just some types of cheese that I can swallow, and other types which make me want to puke.

 

[Yaezakura]

No. There are just some types of cheese that I can swallow, and other types which make me want to puke.

The thing is, marking via your breath is not cheese. It's simply what a Dragonborn Fighter does.

If a Knight Commander can mark 120 enemies simply by hitting one enemy and looking overwhelmingly awesome doing it, surely a Dragonborn Fighter with Enlarged Breath can mark 25 by unleashing a draconic breath weapon on them.

 

[Runestar]

No. There are just some types of cheese that I can swallow, and other types which make me want to puke.

And the only reason behind this seems to be because it offends your sensibilities. People are entitled to play the game differently from how you feel it ought to be played, and they would not necessarily be incorrect.

You feel it is cheese. I feel that it is perfectly acceptable. So who is correct now? Get over it already.