Marvel's "Iron Fist" (Now With Spoilers)
Quickleaf
Legend
I actually thought one of the good things about the show was its cultural sensitivity. And that's been true for all the Marvel TV shows mostly. It portrayed martial arts as an international thing; for example, Jessica Henwick (of Singaporean Chinese & white Zambian-English descend) played a Chinese character practicing Japanese martial arts. Her sensei (Bakuto, a Japanese if ever I heard one) is played by Ramon Rodriguez (of Puerto Rican descent). And the martial arts styles appearing in the show are all across the map. The message, as I understood it was: It don't matter your race, hometown, or creed. Everybody is kung-fu fighting!
Jessica Henwick is well-written and well-cast as Colleen Wing; I found her to be a show stealer in many of her scenes; when she talks about what Bushido means to her, you can really feel the passion and discipline. Sure, there were things I didn't care for – there's a cliche Asian femme fatale at one point (and not done humorously in a tongue-in-cheek way) & I didn't find the attraction between Colleen and Danny explained well enough (he comes across as preachy and undisciplined) – but overall I would feel comfortable watching the show with my Asian friends. We might laugh at a moment or two, but nothing offensive. YMMV.
Well, except my Asian friends who are sophisticated critics of TV/film. In which case I'm pretty sure they'd also have some choice words for the show's other weaknesses.
I do think there was a missed opportunity in exploring the monks of Kun-Lun, casting more Asians there, what that culture was like and how it influenced Danny. While I like the general approach of "I'm already a hero, and I reference my backstory casually" in the other Marvel shows, I think Iron Fist would have benefitted greatly from doing a more involved origin story for Danny, whether revealed in interesting flashbacks (the brief ones in the show felt hollow) or through a "starting as a kid and becoming a hero" montage.
As far as Finn Jones, he's a decent enough actor. The miscasting for Iron Fist/Danny Rand was not a race issue IMO. It was just a mismatch of that particular actor's talents with what the role needed (compounded by very little time for training).
Jessica Henwick is well-written and well-cast as Colleen Wing; I found her to be a show stealer in many of her scenes; when she talks about what Bushido means to her, you can really feel the passion and discipline. Sure, there were things I didn't care for – there's a cliche Asian femme fatale at one point (and not done humorously in a tongue-in-cheek way) & I didn't find the attraction between Colleen and Danny explained well enough (he comes across as preachy and undisciplined) – but overall I would feel comfortable watching the show with my Asian friends. We might laugh at a moment or two, but nothing offensive. YMMV.
Well, except my Asian friends who are sophisticated critics of TV/film. In which case I'm pretty sure they'd also have some choice words for the show's other weaknesses.
I do think there was a missed opportunity in exploring the monks of Kun-Lun, casting more Asians there, what that culture was like and how it influenced Danny. While I like the general approach of "I'm already a hero, and I reference my backstory casually" in the other Marvel shows, I think Iron Fist would have benefitted greatly from doing a more involved origin story for Danny, whether revealed in interesting flashbacks (the brief ones in the show felt hollow) or through a "starting as a kid and becoming a hero" montage.
As far as Finn Jones, he's a decent enough actor. The miscasting for Iron Fist/Danny Rand was not a race issue IMO. It was just a mismatch of that particular actor's talents with what the role needed (compounded by very little time for training).
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Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
hmm thats an interesting perspective and while the concept of a universal "Everybody is kung-fu fighting!" vibe might work, it does have the stink of 'white privilege' about it. Indeed when both Bakuta and Davos presented as 'not east asian' I for one raised my eyebrow and thought 'oh so they're really going all out to give the finger to critics by showing 'diversity'. Now I don't mind Danny being European and comics Bakuto was South American too but Davos is the son of lei kung the thunderer who afaik is not Indian
Agreed about Jessica Henwick, she was the best thing in the show and probably could have carried it without Jones being involved at all (which does suggest those race critics might have a point). Finn Jones was just a terrible casting choice, they really should have got an actor with a martial arts background and who could actually carry off the concept of a trained fighter trying to 'find himself' (unfortunately the only modern martial arts actor I can think of is Jon Foo, who might be too old for the role)
Other Points:
Absolutely agreed about the missed oppurtunity to explore Kun Lun - that should have been the heart of the movie, not Wall Street lawyers
I think the Femme Fatale was supposed to be a Bride of Nine Spiders homage (?)
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
No, that's not it from my perspective. The cry for Iron Fist to be Asian was a bad idea from the outset since while it would add a leading Asian actor (something Marvel has been doing in Agents of SHIELD) to a media when there aren't enough, it would have confined him to the too-frequent stereotype of "martial artist Asian". I hardly see that as a forward step. I think it would be a better investment in time to advocate for non-stereotypical parts rather than complain about lack of stereotypical ones.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Totally disagree. Returning to New York and having to deal with the Meachums is too core to the character of Iron Fist to avoid. It's one of the elements that keeps this story different from most other martial arts stories - or other superhero stories for that matter.
Quickleaf
Legend
What about the series struck you as glorifying white privilege?
I actually found the homeless character who meets Danny in the park – was that Big Al played by Craig Walker – to be fascinating and very sympathetically portrayed. His conversations with Danny were illuminating about Danny's character and about how different Danny (supposedly) was compared to where he'd come from. Sadly, the show didn't live up to the expectations set up by their talks in the park.
Yeah...I didn't get Sacha Dhawan's casting as Davos either. Was he supposed to be an adopted son? Kinda like Danny? I think he was supposed to be a biological son, explaining his jealousy. That's a case of weird casting that should have been East Asian, I agree. And, personally, I didn't care for his performance as Davos – there was a lot of merit to the nuance he brought, but he had a very "muted" stage presence.
Jon Foo would have been good. Iko Uwais, the Indonesian actor from The Raid, could have worked too. Or Biao Yuen.
And if they were making a conscious choice to follow the comics closely, keeping Danny Rand a white guy, they could have gone for a Scott Adkins type. Hmm. Yeah, not many white guy actors I know of into Tai Chi or Wushu – they tend to be more hard style types. Oh, Ashton Kutcher is a jiujitsu guy.
Hmm, I see your point. Not many well-known white guy actors into Chinese martial arts. But I guess that's the sort of challenge you have a thorough casting process in order to surmount, yeah?
Yeah, following the formulae of "already into hero's story with casual background reveal" hurt the show.
Ah, that's where she was from. I totally missed that reference! But then I only read one copy of Iron Fist when I was a kid.
I was really hoping there'd be more martial arts, more internal style mysticism, and deeper psychological characterization of the lead. Instead, I ended up more interested in Jessica Henwick's character and the Meachum family drama.
Hussar
Legend
See, to me, the Meachum family drama was so pointless. Who cares? None of it has the slightest lasting impact. It was just so pointless. Someone walks in the room, they have a conversation, person walks out, describes most episodes. I'm not watching a Marvel Super Hero show to see boardroom drama. We HAVE boardroom dramas to watch if I want to watch that. Hrmmm, kung-fu gu kicks ass in New York. I got no problems with that.
And the bit with the homeless guy was probably the best part of the whole show. Shame that character doesn't last too long. That was probably the most interesting interaction in the show. The rest of it? Yawn.
Anyone else notice that the fight scene in the hallway with the hatchet dudes was MUCH better done in Season 2 of Daredevil?
Yeah, I think Iron Fist was a dud. I watched it, mostly because I'm a Marvel fan. If it wasn't tied into the other shows, I probably would have dumped it after the third episode. Poorly written, terrible pacing.
And the bit with the homeless guy was probably the best part of the whole show. Shame that character doesn't last too long. That was probably the most interesting interaction in the show. The rest of it? Yawn.
Anyone else notice that the fight scene in the hallway with the hatchet dudes was MUCH better done in Season 2 of Daredevil?
Yeah, I think Iron Fist was a dud. I watched it, mostly because I'm a Marvel fan. If it wasn't tied into the other shows, I probably would have dumped it after the third episode. Poorly written, terrible pacing.
wicked cool
Hero
why don't people like Dardevil season 2 that much? There was no main villain but I loved the hero vs hero angles and the action scenes I thought were the best of all the series so far.
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