Mary Sue- Not sure I understand

[Doug Sundseth]

While the concept of "Mary Sue" characters was first formalized in the fanfic community, Mary Sues need not appear in fanfic -- and can be protagonists as well. For a fuller description, see this old post at Making Light.

For reference, the post was written by Teresa Nielsen Hayden, a senior editor at Tor, a significant part of whose living is categorizing slush.

The informal version (quoted from the post above):

"Mary Sue literary theory has changed my professional life. Before, when discussing manuscripts with my colleagues, I had to say things 'You know, one of those books that keeps telling you how wonderful and talented and perfect the main character is and how much everyone loves her, but aside from that there’s nothing at stake and nothing really happens? No logic, no causality, no narrative development, just that character being wonderful every barfy step of the way?'"

 

[Hairfoot]

Hmm. My Mary S... recurring NPC meets several of the criteria in the litmus test (such as a period of slavery), but it was dictated by an old GM. Does it still count if I didn't write it into the story?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Whether or not it "counts" as a Mary Sue because of author identification is pretty irrelevant ... because ultimately it's the final product that determines Sue-hood, at least if you eliminate the author, if the Sue is still the same, it's still going to be just as annoying to hear about it.

On the one hand, being written by a different author, or used by a new DM, means it's possible to change the character to reveal something that makes them less of a Sue, and more of a normal character. There is also a risk though, that a new author will try to keep "true" to the character and end up making it more of a Sue as a result.

Odds are any NPC "Sue" can likely be saved from Sue-hood, especially if you recognise elements of it. You can't really change the backstory (outside of having it revealed to be a lie, especially if the Sue is the only one to provide the backstory) but characters can evolve over time.

 

[Primal]

~ removed by admin - PS~

 

[S'mon]

Primal, please refer to the mod warning at:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4849001-post115.html
Suggest you delete your post.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, I thought I'd give Primal some time to respond and edit the comment himself, but he hasn't... so he's booted from the thread. Hopefully everyone else can continue normally.

Thanks

 

[Somebloke]

Hmm. My Mary S... recurring NPC meets several of the criteria in the litmus test (such as a period of slavery), but it was dictated by an old GM. Does it still count if I didn't write it into the story?

So long as the game is about the players and not the NPC, it will be fine.

 

[Hairfoot]

So long as the game is about the players and not the NPC, it will be fine.

It's about players who accept an NPC who's smarter, stronger, faster, luckier and better looking than all of them put together.

 

[Somebloke]

It's about players who accept an NPC who's smarter, stronger, faster, luckier and better looking than all of them put together.

Then in all seriousness it sounds like drastic action may be needed. What would happen, canon-wise, if the NPC vanished or expired?

 

[Hairfoot]

Then in all seriousness it sounds like drastic action may be needed. What would happen, canon-wise, if the NPC vanished or expired?

The post was in no seriousness at all. However, I think I will fire the NPC from a cannon for laughs.