May Rules Update

[keterys]

Monk powers are actually extremely good, since you get both the move and the attack option.

And Twin Strike is still probably a good at-will whenever your static bonus is good - it's just less effective combined with daggermaster, but it's still better than many other rogue at-wills unless you want to move or gain combat advantage or whatever. Two attacks at 5% crit isn't quite as good as 15% crit chance, but it's pretty darn close, and two chances to land sneak attack is a boon, and two times the other static modifiers potentially eclipse Dex+Cha.

But, yeah, grabbing up a paladin, ardent, monk, seeker, ranger, assassin or warlock at-will is still good for a rogue, even if you aren't a very specific build trying to max out twin strike with daggermaster anymore.

 

[BobTheNob]

Okay level 6 Half Elf rogue effectively retired, now its a definite penalty to be one.
And in fact they also nerfed Blood Iron Dagger.
Only took them 2 updates to the weapon this year to get it right, which is a bit slack in my mind.

I dont understand this. To me (and Im not saying Im the best or final authority) the nerf to bloodiron was perfectly correct. In fact, its how we were playing it to date, which I was particularly pleased the rules aligned to.

Im guessing your rogue was a versatile dilletante twin strike cheese master build, in which case slap on the wrist to the player for putting pure mathematics and game legalities in front of gameplay and flavour.

I like to encourage players to build to a theme, and then work with them how to optomise within that. Not start with an optomisation and somehow develop that into a theme. That way, when the collection of numbers they call a character is finally destroyed by (quite correct) errata, we dont have the specious "Its not fair" arguments.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Lol

Tell me one good at-will then that does better than a rogue one with 18 to 20 crit range ?

The monk burst 1 at-will ?

This was exactly what i took when tinkering with the build after commenting... also took monk multiclass... even though the damage is lousy, a slide comes in very handy for a rogue. (Especially with the PHB 3 deadly draw feat)

edit: especially good if you look at the movement technique which comes for free with the at will...

edit2: and don´t forget, there are other good rogue paragon paths out there...

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I dont understand this. To me (and Im not saying Im the best or final authority) the nerf to bloodiron was perfectly correct. In fact, its how we were playing it to date, which I was particularly pleased the rules aligned to.

Indeed. Again, I'm surprised that people read it any other way, same as Staff of Ruin.

Brad

 

[Dice4Hire]

Indeed. Again, I'm surprised that people read it any other way, same as Staff of Ruin.

Brad

There is a test for being able to read things that way to join Charop.

I failed that test.

 

[Kishin]

I'm disappointed to see Throw and Stab nerfed largely because it was an alternative to Twin Strike (Which you may as well just auto-slot as a Ranger), but it was kinda super synergistic with Marauder's Rush.

 

[Baumi]

Throw and Stab lost his damage potential but is IMHO much better now since it gives you a free move (no requirement to end your move adjacent to an enemy) which makes it much more versatile.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'm disappointed to see Throw and Stab nerfed largely because it was an alternative to Twin Strike (Which you may as well just auto-slot as a Ranger), but it was kinda super synergistic with Marauder's Rush.

I kinda thought this was the -entire point- behind the Marauder Ranger's build.

Errata that fixes problems? Sure. Errata that makes removes a build option from the game? Eh.

I'm kinda torn by how I feel about this one.

 

[firesnakearies]

Errata that makes removes a build option from the game? Eh.

I'm fairly certain that it doesn't do that. Sounds like hyperbole to me. Specifically, hyperbole of the "if my character class/race/option isn't the bestest, most optimized powergamer thing available, then it's GARBAGE!" variety.

But I could be wrong. Correct me if so.

 

[MrMyth]

I kinda thought this was the -entire point- behind the Marauder Ranger's build.

Errata that fixes problems? Sure. Errata that makes removes a build option from the game? Eh.

I'm kinda torn by how I feel about this one.

I don't think the build option has been removed from the game in any way. Throw and Stab remains quite strong. Marauder's Rush remains a powerful base for a charging ranger build. I don't see how the inability to combine those elements, though, prevents anyone from using them individually.