Monster Knowledge Check, Monster Roles? Minion or not?

[DracoSuave]

Actually, one sees the hero trying something that he assumes will work all of the time in books and movies. It's a literary staple. Heroes get it wrong too sometimes.

That depends on which literary form you use to inform your game. George R R Martin might inspire you to avoid minions all together just to give it a roughneck feel. Kill Bill on the otherhand...

Not really.

How does one know (not guess, but know) the fact that this foe is a paper tiger and this foe is not?

Where is the mystery there? Where is the challenge?

...when The Bride was going into O-Ren Iishi's lair, you, she, and everyone know who was the mooks that would die by the hundreds, and who was the tough targets that would have a real fight.

Killing the foe with a Daily = failing and Killing the foe with an At Will = success???

Wasting a daily on one thing that dies from 1 hit point of damage is a LOT of waste.

That's your argument. Being efficient = success = fun. Being non-efficient = failure = not fun.

For some people, that is very true.

And the entire game system is game mechanics. The Battle Rage Vigor Fighter is not putting up a visible force field that foes can see, he is adding Temporary Hit Points. But NPCs should not know about temporary hit points any more than PCs should know about minions.

If you feel the need to hide minions, chances are minions are not the appropriate monster role to use a lot of in your campaign.

That's not a bad thing, mind you. But minions are designed for a -very specific purpose- and expecting them to work outside that purpose is destined for failure. They're not traps designed to trick PCs into wasting resources, they are easily killed goons that players know they can kill en-masse, and thusly they get to enjoy the visceral thrill of masskilling.

You know, cause D&D is based on a power fantasy.

Adding a strawman of your own aren't you? You are extrapolating that being less efficient = grind.

But then, that would lead one to believe that not spotting the trap leads to more grind, having a choice of 3 paths to go and choosing the wrong one leads to more grind, etc.

Minions aren't designed to be traps.

Why would you want to play a game where you tell the player information that the PC would not know?

Minions aren't designed to be traps.

The PC doesn't know what a minion is. He just knows that he sometimes gets lucky and wipes a foe out with a single blow. Other times, the foe is lucky or skillful or whatever and the battle is more drawn out.

Minions aren't designed to be traps.

I have no problem handing out information that the PC should know to players. I just have a problem handing out information that the PC should NOT know to players. Metagaming knowledge is not information that the PC should know.

And the information 'This army is made of lesser trained individuals that will fall to my blade' is not hidden information, and the game does not pretend or even suggest it should be. The game's basic assumption is that it is a power fantasy, and that's where minions fall into place.

Stop trying to make them traps or tricks or mind games or toughies or anything they're not intended to be. They are swordfodder, and the characters -know- it.

 

[keterys]

That depends on which literary form you use to inform your game. George R R Martin might inspire you to avoid minions all together just to give it a roughneck feel.

Dunno, seems like minions should be pretty common in GRRM - there's an awful lot of death, and usually from one strike if you're not important.

Then again, it might also have a rule to like halve the hp of the PCs, or something.

 

[DracoSuave]

Dunno, seems like minions should be pretty common in GRRM - there's an awful lot of death, and usually from one strike if you're not important.

Yeah, but the protagonists have this alarming tendancy to suck as much as anyone else. The series ain't about making them look heroic and awesome, but about slogging those poor bastards through the mud... then stabbing them in the back.

Not really a good time to use minions.

Then again, it might also have a rule to like halve the hp of the PCs, or something.

 

[Obryn]

My players figure it out really quickly which enemies are minions, based on my descriptions and the minis.

Seriously, if I have 16 identical monsters on the board, none of which are numbered, they will figure it out without much effort.

Regardless, I like minion transparency. I don't think it adds anything to my game if players blow a daily on a minion - unless it's on purpose.

-O