Monte Cook's Design Thoughts On Spellcasters

[Cthulhudrew]

The Chronicles of Amber (Where Merlin forgets to replenish his spells constantly)

However, he still retains the ability to use raw magic. This is most prominent during his battle with the masked wizard at the Keep of Four Worlds. He even makes note of how, once actual prepared spells are lost, dueling wizards just blast away at each other with raw energy- an inelegant solution, I believe he calls it- and the one with the access to the biggest source of energy is generally the victor.

So, while a good model for Vancian magic, it goes a bit beyond that into Warlock Eldritch Blast territory, too.

 

[Acid_crash]

I think someone should combine the Warlock with the Spellcaster from True Sorcery from Green Ronin.

We'd have those minor abilities the Spellcaster can use at will, which, instead of class abilities, should (or can) be just unique magic skills. Then you have the Spells, which the Spellcaster can augment at his whim, and make harder to cast and more powerful, at the cost of his personal energy.

 

[GQuail]

A couple others
The Chronicles of Amber (Where Merlin forgets to replenish his spells constantly)
Discworld

Specifically in the context of Discworld, earlier books do indeed clearly have Vancian wizards, but only becuase earlier books are mocking D&D and it's archetypes.

Certainly, the Luggage supposedly grew out of a RPG Terry Pratchett took part in. ;-)

 

[der_kluge]

I'm going to add the following house rule to my game, and I'll see how it works...


Starting at 3rd level (caster level) and every 3 levels after that, a spellcaster may choose any 0-level spell to cast "at-will".

Another modification:
The spell cure minor wounds can only be used to cure no more than half of the current hit point deficit. That is, if a PC has 60 hit points at maximum, and currently has 10 hit points, cure minor wounds can only cure 25 hit points (60-10 = 50. 50/2 = 25).


This prevents the party from healing to maximum before they open the next door in the dungeon. Still maintains an element of danger, but minimizes the need to stop and rest at 10 am in the morning so that the cleric can get his spells back. It also minimizes the situations where the party is all down on hit points, the cleric is out of spells, so the party rests, the cleric heals everyone, and then they immediately rest again so the cleric can get all his spells back.

And really, I don't think it's game-breaking at all if the wizard runs around casting ray of frost or acid splash everywhere. They do very little damage anyway.

 

[Slife]

Another modification:
The spell cure minor wounds can only be used to cure no more than half of the current hit point deficit. That is, if a PC has 60 hit points at maximum, and currently has 10 hit points, cure minor wounds can only cure 25 hit points (60-10 = 50. 50/2 = 25).

It seems like it would be easier to judge if you just said up to half of total hp. Otherwise, what if you get healed up to 35, and get stabbed for 2 damage. Are you then able to heal 13 points of damage because you got attacked?

However, he still retains the ability to use raw magic. This is most prominent during his battle with the masked wizard at the Keep of Four Worlds. He even makes note of how, once actual prepared spells are lost, dueling wizards just blast away at each other with raw energy- an inelegant solution, I believe he calls it- and the one with the access to the biggest source of energy is generally the victor.

So, while a good model for Vancian magic, it goes a bit beyond that into Warlock Eldritch Blast territory, too.

Ah. Forgot about that part. It's been a while since I read the series...

Maybe some sort of MP system with both spontaneous and prepared spells could work. Prepared spells take less MP to cast and have to be prepared beforehand, but spontaneous ones can be chosen on the fly...

 

[Nellisir]

We'd have those minor abilities the Spellcaster can use at will, which, instead of class abilities, should (or can) be just unique magic skills. Then you have the Spells, which the Spellcaster can augment at his whim, and make harder to cast and more powerful, at the cost of his personal energy.

Magic skills is an interesting idea. I've been toying with the idea of "prestige skills", a sort of catch-all category to take some of the weight off of xp costs and feats.

(Characters in 3e have 4 basic expendable resources to improve their characters: gp, xp, skill points, and feats. If you want anything outside of your core class abilities, you need to spend one of these.)

You could also simply reduce a spellcaster's spell slots by, say, 1/2, and use the other slots to "buy" spell-like abilities. One first level slot gets you magic missile 3/day, two gets you magic missile every other round, 3 gets you magic missile at will.

In most cases, only common spells (or "simple" spells in AE) should become spell-like abilities. Specialists might be able to get more esoteric ("complex" spells) from their specialized school.

 

[Nellisir]

Also, you have to be careful to leave the other classes their areas of ability. A cleric can outtank a fighter, for a few rounds. If he could do that every combat, it'd be too much.

 

[der_kluge]

It seems like it would be easier to judge if you just said up to half of total hp. Otherwise, what if you get healed up to 35, and get stabbed for 2 damage. Are you then able to heal 13 points of damage because you got attacked?

You're right. I knew there was a situation that I was forgetting.

 

[Mistwell]

I think Monte's ideas are great. I'd love to end the cast-then-rest mechanic. It makes no sense to me, it doesn't "feel" like a spellcaster to me and never did. If you know magic, there should be at least some magic you can just DO, any time, because you know magic! I also appreciate keeping some resource management in the class with spells. Overall, it's the change I would most appreciate if there were a 4th edition of this game.

 

[jcfiala]

I think Monte's ideas are interesting, and I'd like to see a spellcasting class that follows his ideas. But I don't see a reason to get rid of the current Wizard class, which I enjoy playing.