Monte Cook's Design Thoughts On Spellcasters

[pawsplay]

The title of this thread should have been Monte Cook's Design Thoughts on Spellblasters.

I find unlimited magic attacks for the basic wizard to be a demented idea, ranking up there with replacing the standard fighter with the warblade.

 

[Lanefan]

In response to several posts so far:

I'm going to be very, very wary of any attempt to move toward "encounter-based" anything, mostly because what an encounter is simply cannot be defined.

The only time resting becomes a problem is when the party have access to long-range travel spells and can thus rest in safety outside the adventure area. Otherwise, if they want to rest in the dungeon, let 'em...they know there's a risk of getting mugged during the night...or not...

Lanefan

 

[RangerWickett]

I think Monte's ideas are interesting, and I'd like to see a spellcasting class that follows his ideas. But I don't see a reason to get rid of the current Wizard class, which I enjoy playing.

I'm working on one. Expect it in the next version of Elements of Magic.

 

[BryonD]

The title of this thread should have been Monte Cook's Design Thoughts on Spellblasters.

Hi,

Welcome to D&D.
Have you met our Clerics yet?

 

[Gentlegamer]

RE: D&D magic and source material

d20 fantasy magic, like AD&D, is a synthesis of Vance's mnemonic magic from the Dying Earth stories (spells are an energy pattern stored in the wizard's brain until used are are expended upon casting, hence the reason to "memorize" them after used), and Camp and Pratt's sympatheic magic from the Harold Shea stories (spells requiring verbal and matieral components related to the effect desired). Both are somewhat "sci fi" in presentation, which is appropriate considering the time period in which they were published (mid 20th century). They both represent powerful magical effects. There's really no comparison in prior "fantasy" source material . . . magic is usually far less powerful, risky, and time intensive (such as in REH's Conan stories, or even Tolkien).

 

[Mistwell]

RE: D&D magic and source material

d20 fantasy magic, like AD&D, is a synthesis of Vance's mnemonic magic from the Dying Earth stories (spells are an energy pattern stored in the wizard's brain until used are are expended upon casting, hence the reason to "memorize" them after used), and Camp and Pratt's sympatheic magic from the Harold Shea stories (spells requiring verbal and matieral components related to the effect desired). Both are somewhat "sci fi" in presentation, which is appropriate considering the time period in which they were published (mid 20th century). They both represent powerful magical effects. There's really no comparison in prior "fantasy" source material . . . magic is usually far less powerful, risky, and time intensive (such as in REH's Conan stories, or even Tolkien).

And yet there are plenty of examples of a different magic system being used in novels since that time, and nothing at all to limit D&D to a fixed era of sci-fi oriented books for it's magic system.

I just don't understand why we should care about the authors of the original systems that were drawn from as source material. We should care about making the best game possible, not "remaining true" to something from the past if there is a better system that doesn't depend on the past.

 

[JohnSnow]

I'm working on one. Expect it in the next version of Elements of Magic.

Ryan, the fact that you're working on something like this makes me very curious.

You see, I started the guys on a project like this over on the Iron Heroes Ezboard. We're using True Sorcery as the basis, but it's fair to say that Elements of Magic has influenced our magic work as well.

Anyway, I was thinking about this, and it occurs to me that in a skill-based magic system (a la EoM - Mythic Earth or True Sorcery), a spell with a low DC and minimal impact (such as fatigue or drain) is, effectively, an all-day power. Then your "spells" are your higher DC, more fatiguing abilities. Effectively, you have disciplines by casting your "easy" spells.

Given that you could have that (and already sorta do) with one mechanic, why create two? We kinda started doing it, but I can't help but wonder if we're being stupid. However, if you've decided it's worth working on after making a skill-based system, I'm curious as to what your motivating theory is.

Care to share?

 

[Voadam]

In response to several posts so far:

I'm going to be very, very wary of any attempt to move toward "encounter-based" anything, mostly because what an encounter is simply cannot be defined.

The only time resting becomes a problem is when the party have access to long-range travel spells and can thus rest in safety outside the adventure area. Otherwise, if they want to rest in the dungeon, let 'em...they know there's a risk of getting mugged during the night...or not...

Lanefan

Rope Trick
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

Material Component
Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

 

[JohnSnow]

Rope Trick Spell Description...

Have I mentioned how much I HATE that spell?

There's nothing wrong with the rope part, but the extra-dimensional space is just...wrong.

How about reducing the duration of Rope Trick to 10 minutes per level? How much do you think people would scream?

 

[Lanefan]

Rope Trick

The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space.

Up from six occupants in the older editions... I think the duration is higher too; going by memory, I think it was 10 minutes per level in 1e. 1 hour per level is a bit much.

Also, if you're using this to rest in a dungeon and the opposition have Detect Magic, and Dispel Magic, your rest can come to a crashing end in a hurry.

A nasty DM would have it that when you pulled the rope in, the "anchor" was gone and the extra-dimensional window could drift on the wind...

Lanefan