Naeronite relationship with dragons/chromatic dragons

[Emiricol]

Maybe he should just be Neutral Evil.

 

[Northman]

Lawful evil or neutral evil.

Originally it sounded like he was chaotic evil, but decided to let the dead come to him, which may move him from chaotic to neutral. Or neutral to lawful.

It makes more sense and defines him better.

 

[Silverglass]

Perhaps the evil dragons give Naeron respect as their progenitor, but generally do not worship him in the classic sense, at least not as a race. Some dragons may, but these would be the ones who weren't necessarily evil, and they'd be the ones with cleric levels. Others who had cleric levels would just worship gods more in line with their alignments and goals.

This is the closest to the reality. Although Naeron created the dragons they were a flawed creation, Naeron is not a creator deity so he took existing life energy, shaped it and created the dragons which he set free on the world. Thus his creations embodied death and destruction because those are the powers used in creating them, just as Parushan's creations' embody corruption. The later creations such as the Lizardfolk were done differently, the power expended was used to alter what already existed, so these creatures are less flawed.

He wished to create powerful servants for war and so he did and he used them against both good and evil beings to ensure that neither gained the upper hand, because part of his purpose is to see that no deity or alliance of deities gains dominion over Aerde, however Dragons are free-willed and the original dragons and their offspring went their own way over time. They developed socially and became the dragons of today which may indeed be very different from what Naeron envisaged when he originally created them (this is why he latter created weapons that can be used against Chromatic dragon's). In the same way his lizardfolk, troglodytes and the rest can differ in alignment from their creator because that is how their society developed. They can even worship other deities.

None of Naeron's children are outsiders whose alignment is part of their nature, they are free-willed beings who may acknowledge Naeron's role as their progenitor and some may indeed worship him, But they do create their own societies and thus their own alignments.

So there would be Dragons (mainly the Lawful Blues and Greens) who worship Naeron and follow his teachings however there will also be CE dragons who delight in destruction and only acknowledge him as their creator.

Just as the two nations of Galvar's dwarves are LG and LN, Naeron's children have differing alignments depending on their society. Paludosus is LN because the clerics of Naeron have had so much influence in its development and they follow the teachings closely. A distant tribe of Troglodytes will be chaotic evil and will probably not even know the name of their creator.

 

[Silverglass]

What I'm saying is that the act of creating evil dragons IS evil. If you create a race of creatures and make them mass murderers, creating them is an evil act. You're creating evil creatures to do evil. That's evil.

I understand we're working within a whacky alignment system which serves almost no purpose except a couple of rules important roles, but even within the system, I don't understand how Naeron gets around that.

But he didn't create a evil race of mass murderers. He created a powerful race of beings to serve him as his army in the ongoing conflict against the other gods. The fact that now the rules have changed and he can't command then directly means that dragons have become free to act as they desire. And as the most powerful creatures in Aerde (well, in their own eyes at least) dragons prey on other intelligent species, but that comes from their own choice rather than because Naeron wants them to.

If a PC actually stood in front of Naeron in the Underworld and asked him what he thought about the way most dragons act (and Naeron felt like answering) then he would say that most dragons have strayed from his teachings and he's not very happy with them, but that the choice was theirs, as are the consequences.

 

[DMEntropy]

If the chromatic dragons have taken the path of evil as a result of freewill after their creation, then their creation is not an evil act. A "bad outcome" maybe, but not inherently evil.

I would very much like to see our chief deity of death remain neutral. If the keeper of the underworld is evil and everyone enters his domain at their death then dying will take on a completely different flavor. If the deity of the underworld is neutral, then inherently good creatures will not look at death as an eternal punishmet.

 

[Memnus]

Chiming in for the first time on this, though I'm not an expert on Naeron.

I see him as having settled into a philosophy of, "Everybody dies sooner or later, and that's all I need." Gods can change alignment, perhaps not as easily as mortals, but certainly as surely. Maybe he did use some evil tools in the past, and maybe he's created some evil things, but that doesn't mean he's evil now. I also agree with Entropy that the one primarily in charge of death should be neutral, not evil - if death were inherently evil, the purest people would be immune to old age. I don't think that's a precedent we want to set.

 

[Northman]

Let's not get into the issues of free will. We're dealing with the D&D alignment system here. Let's just say evil dragons are evil by nature and choice and leave it at that. Otherwise we'll open up a whole nother can of worms.

Good characters expect that when they die they will go to live with their particular god in their plane of exsistance. Death is only a momentary condition. Good characters have no reason to fear it.

If Naeron created "neutral" dragons and they went "bad," then why is he the god of "evil dragons?" He should be the god of neutral dragons. Which makes sense, it does fit Nearon as he is without changing much. Those that turned evil left his portfolio and only the neutral remain.

That gets around a real problem which is going to arise. What does a lawful neutral cleric of Nearon do when he meets a good dragon? His god hates the good dragons and wants to see them wiped out. That means the cleric needs to at the very least seek the death of the good dragon, if not try and do it himself.

Murdering a good dragon has got to be the most evil act a character can do, as far as killing a creature goes. THe cleric's neutral, but he's abliged to kill a good dragon...

So if Naeron is the god of neutral dragons and does not actively seek the death of good or evil dragons, then he truely remains neutral. If he actively seeks the death of good draogns, he's evil.

 

[Northman]

Does this sound like a good solution? Keep Nearon the god of neutral dragons? It avoids a lot of problems and really doesn't change the god at all.

The only other way I see it working is changing Nearon's alignment to evil. Which, as I look back, is what we all assumed Nearon was throughout the Age of Gods. I think it was a little bit of a shock to see that Nearon wasn't evil after all. Didn't make a lot of sense as I remember it.

So how about the neutral dragon solution?

 

[Emiricol]

Well, Naeron supported the cause of evil through most (but not all) of the Age of Gods because it suited his goals. Short of a complete re-write, he's not going to stop being an Old One after all.

It's interesting to note that Naeron gave up his domain of Destruction because it was doing nothing but helping Beher - he fought Beher at length when Beher was banished to the underworld, mind you. Not sure how all that might tie in.

Another alternative - he WAS evil, but spending so much time processing the souls of the dead and his conflict with Beher have turned him Neutral. Meanwhile, the Overgod *did* banish the gods from the Prime Material for not managing their domains and portfolios properly, so maybe Naeron *can't* stop servicing the evil dragons?

Just more food for thought.


EDIT: Oh, and yeah I like the idea of the alignment change to Neutral. It'd explain why some folks consider him evil (he was!) and others don't (he's not anymore!). It'd also make it reasonable that the evil dragons would now worship other clerics, even if Naeron did get a bit of respect from 'em for having created the race.

EDIT EDIT: I forgot he was already Neutral. Which really highlights how bad the problem is, doesn't it? Ok, I'm all for the change to neutral dragons from evil dragons, and the dropping of the vendetta against good dragons.

 

[DMEntropy]

I also like the neutral dragons change. Nearon may not enjoy the presence of good dragons on Aerde as they tend to work against his ultimate goals, but, he does not actively seek their destruction.

NM, it is good to see someone else share my mild frustration with our pantheon. It was a bit directionless in its creation and is now crazily top-heavy with Greater Deities. It is interesting though.