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New Class:Good?

Cheiromancer

Adventurer
Another way of dealing with healing blast is to have it give some kind of adverse affect to the recipient. Fatigue, say (caused by the body going into an overstimulated overdrive of healing). Two fatigues is exhaustion- after that is paralysis for some duration. Since these effects are caused by excessive positive energy, curative magic doesn't help- it only adds fuel to the fire, so to speak.

Don't know how to tinker with it so that it doesn't become unbalanced as a weapon- give it a save to negate, maybe with a +4 bonus. Undead don't get the bonus, but since they are not subject to fatigue, they just take damage from the positive energy.

Something like that, anyway.
 

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Cheiromancer

Adventurer
Macrovore said:
so, it heals them, but the target must make a fort save or become fatigued/exhausted/paralyzed for 2 rounds?

It depends on what you are trying to limit. If you are trying to limit healing in combat, a short bout of fatigue would work. Probably more like a minute of fatigue, though. (10 rounds). If you are wanting to limit healing out of combat, you might have to make the effects more drastic. Standard fatigue lasts 8 hours, for example.

One thing that would limit combat healing is if the healing rays merely convert lethal damage to nonlethal damage. It won't keep them on their feet any longer, but it will make them heal up in hours rather than in days.

Fatigue might set in after combat, rather than during it, and last until the nonlethal damage has all been healed. (It heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/hour IIRC).

Just throwing out some ideas. But there should be a way of making unlimited healing work without messing up the standard balance of things.
 

Xereq

First Post
i like the idea of converting lethal damage into nonleathal damage, it can still be the difference life and death at negative hit points but it just means that the character is unconsious and not dieing.

you might consider giving it a "casting time" of 1 minute and several quickened uses per day, also an invocation that gives target ally fast healing 3 for subdual damage,at around the level clerics get access to heal would be balancing, as clerics could convert any spell at that level into heal instantly, making subdual conversion underwhelming

or perhaps just make it so that the class starts out with subdual conversion at 3rd moves up to half healing/half convesion at around 7th and full healing at 14th.

again, look at comprable healing classes and assume that if the Infused Channeler (perfect name) is going to have a healing ability the party will want it to be the primary healer, freeing up the cleric to be all rightous and smighty (whats with good clerics and avoiding the smightyness and death spells? SAVE OR PROFANE INFIDEL!!! FROM PELOR WITH LOVE!!!FEEL THE BURNING PURITY OF PELOR'S LOVE!!!). :]
 

Macrovore

First Post
xereq, change your avatar. there's someone with it, already. I almost yelled at plotnik. Whether he was behind that post or not, he needs to control his anger. even poor Matt didn't deserve that, man.
 

Macrovore said:
xereq, change your avatar. there's someone with it, already. I almost yelled at plotnik. Whether he was behind that post or not, he needs to control his anger. even poor Matt didn't deserve that, man.
He had it comin'.

Maybe you can have it that after being healed a certain number of times, someone has to start making fortitude saves from the buildup if you try to heal them. If they fail, they take damage equal to the amount normally healed.

But anyways, another idea is that you heal, but it does nonlethal damage to you equal to the damage healed.

EDIT: Wow, I feel stupid. That does the exact same thing as just converting it to non-lethal. :\
 

Macrovore

First Post
or maybe using it too many times on one person in too short an amount a time can open a small rift to the positive energy plane, and they get massive healing extremely fast, but it's so uncontrollable that they get temp hp too, and they can explode (just like in the positive energy plane).

In other words, they can blow people up by attacking them, or healing them
 

Nightcloak

First Post
Alrighty.

*Rolls up sleeves*

First of all, good job. Making a good counterpoint to the warlock is nice, and giving a good divine caster concept for charisma is great. I like the feel of it and I think the game needs more use of the traditional "dump" stats.

The big issue which has been well covered is the unlimited healing potential. I'm going to offer a different solution to the problem.

First. I'm not big on the side affects as a balance cocept, unless it fits the world concept. The player is going to have to plan ahead and make choices in combat anyway to run this character, just like any other spell caster, so no need to tone down the actual effect after he has decided to heal someone versus casting an invocation or attacking in combat or any other action he forgoes to use the ability. In other words, let the player have their powers and have fun. You want them to play your new class you worked on.

What I would do is limit the healing as a spell like ability (which means concentration checks to avoid AoO in combat) that can be cast a number of times per day equal to his wisdom modifier (or once/week with a negative modifier). You could use Charisma, I'm just throwing Wisdom out their do to 1) Thematic: Your reference to divine power being harder to control, and 2) I like the idea of special character classes having more stat requirements - that makes them special (like a paladin needing a number of good stats to run well). I just think specially classes should be a little harder and, well... special. Plus it puts the breaks on the healing a little more. That is just my 2 coppers.

Now the rest looks good. You followed the format of the Warlock which is good as far as rules goes; it uses existing rules making it easier for characters to know. It is tied to the Warlock which makes it an easy concept for players to “wrap themselves around”. And it follows a Wizards created class which means it was created by some of the best rule minds in the industry who should have play tested the class (although some prestige classes from Wizards has made me question this). I’ve noticed that Bruce Cordell’s name pops up on a lot of Wizard products dealing with magic, and if he did this class then it should be fine. The man does some great work (beware his dungeons – they are fabulous but also quite dangerous). I would play test it if possible, or come to an understanding with the first player to play it that “If it seems weak, I’ll boost it and if it is to strong, I may need to roll something back” kind of agreement. A good player will work with you.

The scratch and sniff test:

How does it compare to a base class, which it should not be better than. If you compare it to a cleric, which it is similar to because of the healing IMO (plus the healing is the balance issue), then you get the following:

Similar BAB, the Celestial Mage has reduced saves, lower hit points, and reduced combat proficiencies when compared to the cleric. On the plus you get a lot of special abilities. The cleric has limited special abilities (based on domain powers) plus every GMs bane, turn undead. The Celestial mage looks strong so far, but…

The mage has access to a limited number of invocations while the cleric has a vast spell selection but is limited by the number of times per day it can cast them. On the surface, it looks even.

High level comparison: A 15th level cleric with a 22 for Wisdom can cast 35 different spells per day (not including 0 level spells) plus 8 domain spells. A Celestial Mage with a 22 Charisma and 22 Wisdom can cast 9 different invocations, but can repeatedly cast those invocations all day. The Celestial Mage launches a Heal Blast 6 times per day for 7d6 healing – or an average 21 points of healing) as a ranged touch attack. The cleric can cast heal 4 times per day for 150 points of healing when he touches someone and still have 31 spells + 8 domain spells available.

Now unlimited invocations per day may sound pretty good to a cleric having 43 spells available, but there are some considerations. The invocations are not as powerful as the cleric spells and some invocation are used to affect the Celestial Mages main class feature – the Holy Blast. Also, it is doubtful that the cleric will find itself in a situation where he would actually burn through all of those spells in a day. It’s possible, but odds are it will be rare. Most groups go down when the spell casters get low on spells. That makes the number of spells/invocations available less important. When you combine that with the Celestial Mage having 9 different invocations and the cleric having a possible 43 different actual spells the scales tip heavily in favor of our friend the cleric.

In fact, I’d say the spell and healing capabilities out ways all of the special abilities of the Celestial Mage accept the holy blast. That is the factor that will either make the class equal to the cleric or a little weak. That probably needs to be seen in action to be judged, but looks pretty good.

In retrospect, my recommendation on the healing blast needs to be tweaked. At 3rd level, the Celestial Mage with a wisdom of 18 can heal someone for an average 6 points - 4 times per day while the cleric can cast a cure light wounds for an average 7 points – 4 times per day. Not bad. The 15th level casters from the example above show the gap in healing growing considerably. You may wish to consider either:

1) Allowing the Celestial Mage to add his level to the healing, like the cleric, or

2) Casting it more often then what I recommended to start. Perhaps the Celestial Mage starts out with 1 + Wisdom modifier at 3rd level then gets more castings as he raises in level, say an additional use every 3rd level.

Hope all of that helps out!
 
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Macrovore

First Post
how about the celestial mage can use the healing blast a number of times per day equal to his class level (with the same recharge rate listed in the chart)
 

arelian

First Post
Some ideas to consider...

1) Limit the number of hit points any one target may regain from that class ability each day to the maximum possible result from any particular Celestial Mage (18 HP if they have a 3d6 Healing Blast). If the first use on one particular target gets a result of 10 HP, that target can gain no more than 8 HP on the next use. HP gains in excess of the target's unwounded total become temporary hit points that fade at a rate of one per round (or so...).

2) Base side effects off the Planar Handbook's description of the perils of being on a Positive Energy plane without protection from positive energy overload.

3) There's a web-book I found called Gryphon's Book of Feats that has in it a feat called Divine Channeling, which allows one to expend a Turn attempt in order to heal HP equal to the caster's CHA modifier. This might give another starting point.
 

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