NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[mercucio]

UK, can you clarify when a deity with the War portfolio receives its War-torn weakness? Is it incurred whenever the deity is not in combat?

 

[WarDragon]

A clarification on when Fire gets its Fire Born strength would be nice, too.

 

[Pssthpok]

I'd also like to point out that a Greater Deity of (double) Secrets with primarily Sorcerer levels (i.e. minimum Int) is a vegetable, if one works off of TABLE 2-12 and TABLE 2-13.

Can't something else be done as a weakness other than such outstanding penalties to ability scores? I like the instances where the ability in question can't be boosted. That makes sense and doesn't Rainman my builds. Or maybe a penalty to the ability checks, but not the ability itself?

 

[WarDragon]

I was planning to change the Secrets weakness to Strength, when I built Vecna with it.

 

[dante58701]

Im personally not a fan of ability penalties in general, but they make much more sense than saying a deity has no ability to improve the ability in question. That's just counterproductive and very lame. I'm a huge advocate of allowing anyone to improve an ability score. Unless they are either a construct or undead. Anything else just doesnt make sense.

 

[Pssthpok]

Still, how does crippling a deity's ability score make more sense than capping it off where it stands? I mean, with the template ability score penalties as they are, some deity builds are dead before they hit the ground. How much sense does that make?
Why should a design be forced to allocate WAY more to an ability score than is reasonable just to counteract an excessively demanding penalty?
I think it should be fixed, either to a "no improvement", "minimum 10" or "check penalty" policy, as the current "subtraction" system kills builds before they're finished.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Still, how does crippling a deity's ability score make more sense than capping it off where it stands? I mean, with the template ability score penalties as they are, some deity builds are dead before they hit the ground. How much sense does that make?
Why should a design be forced to allocate WAY more to an ability score than is reasonable just to counteract an excessively demanding penalty?
I think it should be fixed, either to a "no improvement", "minimum 10" or "check penalty" policy, as the current "subtraction" system kills builds before they're finished.

I agree, looking at the numbers, you gain +2/Divine bonus to stats from any given divinity template. The penalty to said ability score effectively makes it so you gain no bonus to said stat. However, the 'cannot improve under any circumstances' clause (see 'easily distracted' under the madness domain) also could be interpreted as 'your divinity template can't improve your stat' (unless ruled otherwise) so, this is actually worse, since you can't improve said stat with 'anything'. (And having both, with the madness domain, ensures your stat will be 0.) (Since no 'ability, item, or spell' can add to your stat. I think 'feat' or 'ability up' could fall under 'ability'. This may not be the intended ruling, but it is a rather harsh one)

Now, ability score-based portfolios (Strength, Skill, Stoicism, Knowledge, Wisdom, Community? I am not sure as to the Charisma one...) should have some similar drawback. (Perhaps opposed as such: Strength Vs Intelligence, Wisdom Vs Dexterity, Constitution Vs Charisma) Most of those suggested portfolios hardly go often together (except with wisdom/dexterity; hoses monk gods)

As for the other portfolios that give stat penalties: I don't know. I think they should give some manner of important penalty, but I don't think stat penalties are correct. Look at it this way: If you had the Omneity power, granting every portfolio, as the current portfolios go, you would be crippled beyond belief. (All stats 0 probably, and you wouldn't have a Constitution score at all from the Death portfolio) Ahh, the joy of being un-alive, paralyzed, and comatose. Totally omnipotent. Can't actually use any of that power though...
If it were just the ability score portfolios opposing each other, then all you stats would even out, and you would just have to watch for 40 some situational bonuses/penalties.

And even the less-than-invincible gods, like for example, a god of Magic and Knowledge, will be auto-crippled. (or at least very, very weak. Like say Strength 8 weak. Oh no, drops some rocks on them) Not to mention, on average, a Lesser God of Thievery or Skill has about 600 Hp, and a constitution of about 10. Quick, give them the common cold, that aught to kill them! /sarcasm

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

I see a compromise has to be reached with regards some of the weaknesses.

Perhaps if the single portfolio drops the opposed ability score by 1/2 your divine rank, and the double portfolio by 1/divine rank?

I could also change the weakness which disallows you gaining anymore bonuses instead halving (single)/quartering (double) the bonuses...what do you think? Better fit?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hey guys!

I see a compromise has to be reached with regards some of the weaknesses.

Perhaps if the single portfolio drops the opposed ability score by 1/2 your divine rank, and the double portfolio by 1/divine rank?

I could also change the weakness which disallows you gaining anymore bonuses instead halving (single)/quartering (double) the bonuses...what do you think? Better fit?

Could work.
Heres an idea: What if the penalties didn't reduce attributes below 10? (So If I have 12 dexterity to start, and my portfolio says I get -20 dexterity, I am left with 10 dexterity.)
Not the best choice, but perhaps by throwing it out there, it will inspire someone to come up with something better.

I personally don't mind the current setup for portfolios, but as people have pointed out, it really hoses the basic gods. The double portfolio penalty is equal to taking two similar portfolio's penalties, but without the added strength of the double portfolio benefits, which are really, really good. No, really, really, really good! I threw together your standard "Treant-like Greater deity tree-thing" with Double nature portfolios. CR 159.

Heres a bit of the end result: The round-by-round tactics.[sblock](Note: Not the greatest tactics in the world against an equal-CR threat, but against a bunch of upstart mortals...)
Round by Round Tactics:
Before Combat – Summon many Elder Air and Earth Elementals, as well as summoning 8 Elder Treants. (All with 50% more hit dice.) cast as many protective spells on self as possible.
Round 1 – Cast Widened (x9) (10x normal area: 50,400’ radius) Plant Growth (Overgrowth) to slow speed down to 10’. Blast Victims with Poisonous Breath. Allow Elementals to Melee, with Elder Treants animating nearby trees as Treants.
Round 2 – Cast a Twinned (x7) (8x normal effect) Animate Plants, animating as many colossal trees as possible. (308 large plants, 154 huge, 77 Gargantuan, or 38 colossal) Sunder any non-artifact weaponry or equipment within reach. Continue to allow Elementals and Animated Plants to pummel foes, using aid-another grapple tactics if able. Treants join melee with animated plants. Elder Treants fire a eight-fold volley of Sunbursts.
Round 3 Cast a Twinned (x7) (8x normal effect) Animate Plants, animating still more plants. Cast Imprisonment on foes resisting attacks. Elder Treants summon Shamblers, and heal wounded Treants with Mass Cure Light Wounds.
Rounds 4 – Cast a Quickened, Heightened, Empowered (x12) Firestorm (140d6 fire damage) on foes. Use Poisonous touch on remaining foes. Cast another Animate Plants (~38 large, 17 huge, 8 gargantuan, or 4 colossal); Have minions continue restricting foes. Elder Treants send Animal Messengers to all available druids for help, then join in melee.
Rounds 5+ - Cast quickened Imprisonment spells on remaining foes. Use Perfect Iatric Breath to heal self and minions (if able). All Treants and Elder Treants join melee, grappling and sundering as appropriate.
[/sblock]
(I throw tactical writeups together for any npc/monster who is somewhat complicated, in the event I forget how exactly it's supposed to kill people most efficiently )

 

[Pssthpok]

Hey guys!

I see a compromise has to be reached with regards some of the weaknesses.

Perhaps if the single portfolio drops the opposed ability score by 1/2 your divine rank, and the double portfolio by 1/divine rank?

I could also change the weakness which disallows you gaining anymore bonuses instead halving (single)/quartering (double) the bonuses...what do you think? Better fit?

I'd prefer a single portfolio to limit the application of enhancement to the ability score (no epic buffs, no artifact items, et al) and a double portfolio to penalize the ability checks, but not the actual score. Same net result, no Rain Man effect.