New use for the Heal skill

[Kerrick]

I had this really weird dream last night (which has no bearing on the discussion at hand), and after waking up from it, I came up with a new idea for the Heal skill.

Anyone with at least 1 rank in Heal can attempt to heal others' wounds by taking 1 minute of time and making a Heal check (effectively, they're taking 10). The amount of damage healed depends on the person's relative skill:

Barbarian, fighter, rogue, sorcerer, wizard, or any class without the Heal skill as a class skill OR who can't cast healing spells: 1 x the check result.

Bard, monk, paladin, ranger, or any class with the Heal skill OR who can cast healing spells up to 4th level: 1d2 x check result.

Cleric, druid, or any class with the Heal skill AND who can cast healing spells of 5th level or higher: 1d3 x check result.

This healing can be applied to a given being once per day; it is effectively wrapping up wounds, applying poultices, and rubbing out pulled/strained muscles. Nonlethal damage counts as half of lethal damage; that is, a person could heal twice as much nonlethal damage as lethal damage.


Along with this, I came up with a feat to extend healing:

Advanced Healing

Prereqs: Heal 6 ranks

When using your Heal skill to heal damage, you can apply it one extra time per day to a given person. Also, the amount of damage you can heal is increased by one step (from 1 to 1d2, 1d2 to 1d3, or 1d3 to 1d4).


Comments, criticisms? I think the amount you can heal might be a bit low, but this could take a bit of the strain off clerics as healers by giving everyone the ability to patch up minor wounds - effectively, performing basic first aid.

 

[Hawken]

Here's a couple of suggestions for Heal:

Treat Injury: On a successful Heal check DC 15, the character treats the target who recovers 1hp per HD, plus 1hp per point of the check over 15, up to a maximum healed equal to 2hp per HD. This can be done once per day per patient.

(I'd suggest letting it treat lethal/non-lethal the same just to keep things quick and simple).

Revivify: On a successful Heal check DC 25, you can revive a character that has died within 1 round of the Heal check. If you are successful, the character is unconscious and stable at 0hp. For every 5 points of the check over the DC, you can revive someone who has been dead for 1 additional round, so, a Heal check 35 could revive someone who has been 'dead' for up to 3 rounds.

To help prevent abuse of these uses, I'd suggest that a Healer's Kit is mandatory for both of these uses of the Heal skill and each Kit has enough bandages, ointments, etc. for 10 Heal checks.

Kerrick, even though you limit it with your method to 1/day, someone with a decent or even exceptional Heal check can easily be treating patients much better than a Cure Wounds spell or as a good as a Heal spell. Ranks, magic items and a wild assortment of modifiers could result in checks that heal well over 100hp on a good check.


ALTERNATE RULE ON DYING AND STABILIZING
Dying: Any character that is Dying (-1 to -9hp) has a 10% chance (1-10 on d100) per round to stabilize and stop losing hp. When the character makes his % check to stabilize, his Base Fort save modifies the check. This adds 2% per +1 Base Fort modifier to all rolls to stabilize.

Anyone attempting to stop the bleeding (full round action, no ranks in Heal) adds 5% to the stabilization check. Anyone with ranks in heal adds 10% to the target's Stabilization check instead of 5%, with a + 5% bonus if the healer has 10 or more ranks in Heal. If a DC 15 Heal check is made, then another 10% bonus is added to the chance to stabilize.

DC 15 Heal checks will no longer automatically stabilize. This represents the fact that other factors are at play that the healer may not know about and cannot control and working someone over for 6 seconds (1 round) isn't always going to be successful. A healer can help someone stabilize, but ultimately, it depends on the person they are trying to help.

Admittedly, this makes using the Heal skill to stabilize less certain of success, but stabilization should not be an automatic thing either. This kind of uncertainty adds some impetus to treating the character and eliminates the "oh, he's only at -5hp, we've got plenty of time" attitude.

 

[Kerrick]

Here's a couple of suggestions for Heal:

Treat Injury: On a successful Heal check DC 15, the character treats the target who recovers 1hp per HD, plus 1hp per point of the check over 15, up to a maximum healed equal to 2hp per HD. This can be done once per day per patient.

I like that. There's talk on the PF forum about some "treat serious injury" use, too (maybe listed in the PF Heal skill?), and a couple folks suggested having DCs for a few different situations. We've already got a bunch of stuff in the PHB - first aid, long term care, treat poison/disease, and treat wounds, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to add a couple more - treat serious injury (broken bones, missing limbs, whatever), or like you say, revive someone who's recently died.

If we go this route, I'd assign first aid to healing nonlethal damage only. Give it a DC 10 check; a success heals 1 hp/die, +1/5 points over 10. Treat injury would cover healing lethal damage (same as above), and would be DC 15; treat serious injury would be DC 20 and cover the massive stuff - a success prevents unconsciousness, loss of blood, or whatever ongoing effects the victim has (excepting penalties due to loss of limbs) and heals some damage. Then we have long-term care (no real changes), and treat poison disease (likewise).

We already have healer's kits in the PHB, too - they grant a +2 bonus to Heal checks - but I agree with your suggestion; I'd require them for anything besides first aid and treat injury. A masterwork kit would grant the +2 bonus as normal.

Revivify: On a successful Heal check DC 25, you can revive a character that has died within 1 round of the Heal check. If you are successful, the character is unconscious and stable at 0hp. For every 5 points of the check over the DC, you can revive someone who has been dead for 1 additional round, so, a Heal check 35 could revive someone who has been 'dead' for up to 3 rounds.

I like this - it's pretty much an epic use of the skill. There should be a limit as to how long someone's been dead, though - maybe 5 rounds?

Kerrick, even though you limit it with your method to 1/day, someone with a decent or even exceptional Heal check can easily be treating patients much better than a Cure Wounds spell or as a good as a Heal spell. Ranks, magic items and a wild assortment of modifiers could result in checks that heal well over 100hp on a good check.

Yeah, that occurred to me too, after I'd had some time to think about it. The easiest way to control that is to put some sort of cap on it, but I'm not sure what would work best - 1 hp/target's Hit Die is too low. I think adding +1/5 points (or maybe even 3) over the DC would work; even if you hit 100, you'd only be healing 20 + HD. For a 1/day ability, that's not bad at all.

ALTERNATE RULE ON DYING AND STABILIZING
Dying: Any character that is Dying (-1 to -9hp) has a 10% chance (1-10 on d100) per round to stabilize and stop losing hp. When the character makes his % check to stabilize, his Base Fort save modifies the check. This adds 2% per +1 Base Fort modifier to all rolls to stabilize.

I like this.

Anyone attempting to stop the bleeding (full round action, no ranks in Heal) adds 5% to the stabilization check. Anyone with ranks in heal adds 10% to the target's Stabilization check instead of 5%, with a + 5% bonus if the healer has 10 or more ranks in Heal. If a DC 15 Heal check is made, then another 10% bonus is added to the chance to stabilize.

That works.

DC 15 Heal checks will no longer automatically stabilize. This represents the fact that other factors are at play that the healer may not know about and cannot control and working someone over for 6 seconds (1 round) isn't always going to be successful. A healer can help someone stabilize, but ultimately, it depends on the person they are trying to help.

I came up with my own version of death/dying (because it sucks), but I kept the first aid = stabilize thing. The DC is 10 + number of hp of the victim below 0 (for example, someone at -7 is DC 17). I like your variant better, though - I'll change it so that a Heal check (same DC) grants a +2 bonus, +1/5 points over the DC, to the victim's next Con check. That gives the victim a chance of recovering, but not a certainty - it factors in the healer's skill, the victim's condition, and pure dumb luck. A really good healer should be able to pull someone back from the brink, while a novice could lose his patient.

Admittedly, this makes using the Heal skill to stabilize less certain of success, but stabilization should not be an automatic thing either. This kind of uncertainty adds some impetus to treating the character and eliminates the "oh, he's only at -5hp, we've got plenty of time" attitude.

Yeah, I like the uncertainty factor. The way I did death/dying, you get three failed Con checks; the first two failures, you lose 1 hp, and the third, you die. The DM should make the roll secretly to preserve tension. If you make the check by 5 or less, there's no change; if you make it by 5+, you go straight to 0 hp (this makes the Heal check much more important).

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

These are the rules we use in my campaign:

Battlefield Medicine- Takes one minute, on a successful DC 15 heal check heals a base of 1 hit points per HD of the treated character +1 hp for each 3 points the DC is exceeded by. The treatment of a wounded character must be begin within 5 minutes of taking the wounds. Only one battlefield medicine check may be made on a person in any hour.

Lack of a healer’s kit add +5 to the DC. Poor conditions adds +1-10 to the DC.

A clean and warm room gives a +1 circumstance bonus to the battlefield medicine check, a first aid station +3 and a hospital +5.

Note: A healer’s kit does not provide any bonuses for a battlefield medicine check, but it does negate penalties. A masterwork healer’s kit provides a +2 equipment bonus on a battlefield medicine checks but costs 100 and 40 to restock.

A healer’s kit provides enough supplies for ten battlefield medicine or first aid checks. Restocking a healer’s kit costs 25.


It has worked well. And it seem very similar to the various ideas above.

 

[Hawken]

If we go this route, I'd assign first aid to healing nonlethal damage only. Give it a DC 10 check; a success heals 1 hp/die, +1/5 points over 10. Treat injury would cover healing lethal damage (same as above), and would be DC 15; treat serious injury would be DC 20 and cover the massive stuff - a success prevents unconsciousness, loss of blood, or whatever ongoing effects the victim has (excepting penalties due to loss of limbs) and heals some damage. Then we have long-term care (no real changes), and treat poison disease (likewise).

The only problem with that is nonlethal damage heals fairly quickly, too fast to really bother with this. Making this a 1/day thing, makes it useful without overshadowing magical healing or other exceptional sources. Or you could make it where you heal 1hp/hd for D4, 2hp/hd for d6 and d8 and maybe 3hp/hd for d10 and d12 HD--that keeps the healing limited to 1/4 or 1/3 of total HP. Again, very useful, but not seriously powerful.

You do have a good idea though about conditions. A Heal check should be able to reduce or (at least temporarily) eliminate effects such as Fatigued, Sickened, Unconscious, Dazed, etc.

Here's another suggested use:
REVITALIZE: With a DC 15 Heal check, the target is given temporary relief from ability drain. For 10 minutes, the target ignores the loss of 2 points to one ability score, increase the value by 1 per 5 points over the DC. So a DC 25 check would allow the patient to ignore a Strength loss of 4 points; if his Str was drained to 16 from 20, he could act as if he still had a 20 Str for 10 minutes. Each additional time per day this is done, the DC increases by 3 and if the check fails, the patient becomes fatigued.

This is long enough to handle a fight, but not long enough to do much more than that. I'm proposing this as an alternative to having to run off and get a Restoration.

I like this - it's pretty much an epic use of the skill. There should be a limit as to how long someone's been dead, though - maybe 5 rounds?

Actually its not too epic at all. CPR is a basic example that doesn't even require 'ranks' in Heal when a 30 min class can show anyone how to do it. Requiring a Healer's Kit for its use means that a combination of drugs could be used to help facilitate the revival. It takes more than a minute without oxygen for brain death to start setting in, so no real limit needs to be imposed beyond the healer having enough ranks to pull off the check.

Knight, your suggestion is interesting but its not practical at all in combat. A minute in real life is not long at all, but in combat rounds of 6 seconds, its too long to be of practical use except during post encounter recovery. Slap a poultice on the wound, bandage them up and send 'em on their way!

 

[Kerrick]

These are the rules we use in my campaign:

Welcome, Knight! And yeah, that's pretty much exactly like what Hawk's suggesting. I think it's a good rule, and if you say it's worked well, that's good enough for me. I like how you added the costs for restocking a kit, too.

The only problem with that is nonlethal damage heals fairly quickly, too fast to really bother with this.

Ah, yeah. I didn't realize it healed at 1 point/level/hour.

Making this a 1/day thing, makes it useful without overshadowing magical healing or other exceptional sources. Or you could make it where you heal 1hp/hd for D4, 2hp/hd for d6 and d8 and maybe 3hp/hd for d10 and d12 HD--that keeps the healing limited to 1/4 or 1/3 of total HP. Again, very useful, but not seriously powerful.

Yeah, there you go. One problem I can see, though - how do you treat multiclass PCs?

You do have a good idea though about conditions. A Heal check should be able to reduce or (at least temporarily) eliminate effects such as Fatigued, Sickened, Unconscious, Dazed, etc.

Poisons and disease are already in the PHB, but I didn't even consider the others - good call.

Here's another suggested use:
REVITALIZE: With a DC 15 Heal check, the target is given temporary relief from ability drain. For 10 minutes, the target ignores the loss of 2 points to one ability score, increase the value by 1 per 5 points over the DC. So a DC 25 check would allow the patient to ignore a Strength loss of 4 points; if his Str was drained to 16 from 20, he could act as if he still had a 20 Str for 10 minutes. Each additional time per day this is done, the DC increases by 3 and if the check fails, the patient becomes fatigued.

This is long enough to handle a fight, but not long enough to do much more than that. I'm proposing this as an alternative to having to run off and get a Restoration.

Hmm. I'm not sure about this one. It doesn't seem overpowered, per se, just... odd.

Actually its not too epic at all. CPR is a basic example that doesn't even require 'ranks' in Heal when a 30 min class can show anyone how to do it. Requiring a Healer's Kit for its use means that a combination of drugs could be used to help facilitate the revival. It takes more than a minute without oxygen for brain death to start setting in, so no real limit needs to be imposed beyond the healer having enough ranks to pull off the check.

Good point.

Knight, your suggestion is interesting but its not practical at all in combat. A minute in real life is not long at all, but in combat rounds of 6 seconds, its too long to be of practical use except during post encounter recovery. Slap a poultice on the wound, bandage them up and send 'em on their way!

I don't think he's suggesting do it IN combat. He's doing what I was thinking - after combat, or when someone gets hurt (falling into a pit, frex), you take 1 minute to patch up wounds and such and recover some lost hit points.

Here's what I've hacked together so far:

First aid: DC 10, heals nonlethal damage = 1 hp/die, +1/5 points over 10. Requires 1 round.

Treat injury: DC 15, treats lethal damage as above; can be used to bind bleeding wounds, set broken bones, etc. Requires 1 round for binding, or 1 minute for other damage.

Treat serious injury: DC 20, treats mortal wounds (missing limbs, broken bones, etc.), heals 1 hp/5 points of the check result. Requires 5 minutes.

Revivify: DC 25, can revive someone who's just died (within 1 round/5 points over the DC, maximum 5 rounds); person is at death threshold +1d6 (frex, someone with 14 Con would be 14-1d6 hp). Requires 5 minutes.

Stabilize: DC 10 + negative hp; grants a +2 bonus to the victim's next Con check, +1/5 points over the DC. Requires 1 round.

I can divide up the conditions into minor, moderate, and major, and assign them to first aid, treat injury, and treat serious injury, then figure out what a success does (maybe just halve the penalties?).

 

[Hawken]

I like how you added the costs for restocking a kit, too.

Me too! Great idea!

Yeah, there you go. One problem I can see, though - how do you treat multiclass PCs?

Use the higher value.

Hmm. I'm not sure about this one. It doesn't seem overpowered, per se, just... odd.

Yeah, a little. Think of it like a shot of adrenaline for the physical abilities that it temporarily restores and like a mood elevator for the mental ones.

I don't think he's suggesting do it IN combat. He's doing what I was thinking - after combat, or when someone gets hurt (falling into a pit, frex), you take 1 minute to patch up wounds and such and recover some lost hit points.

I started thinking that too when I reread it.

For the First Aid, Treat Injury, and Treat Serious Injury, I would suggest raising the DC by 5 each. There should be some challenge to the checks, some difficulty, but with the listed DCs, even at mid-level, failure would be almost non-existent. Treating a serious injury should be as difficult as reviving someone.

 

[Kerrick]

For the First Aid, Treat Injury, and Treat Serious Injury, I would suggest raising the DC by 5 each. There should be some challenge to the checks, some difficulty, but with the listed DCs, even at mid-level, failure would be almost non-existent. Treating a serious injury should be as difficult as reviving someone.

Yeah, you could do that. I've got an idea for the skill system re: DCs, though - I'll post it in another thread.

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

Yes, Battlefield Healing is designed as an after combat/accident treatment. You can use the standard stabilization rules to keep someone from bleeding to death during combat but it takes a bit longer to get people back together.

I chose a DC of 15 so that even low level characters would have an acceptable chance of hitting the roll. While the bonus HP healed from a high roll still made it useful to improve the skill at higher levels.

It was designed to make a group without a Cleric at least via semi-viable in terms of healing. Which it has managed to help out with as my current campaign group consist of a fighter, monk, necrourgist and an (npc) bard.

 

[Kerrick]

Healing conditions (I just threw these together, so they might need a little fine-tuning):

Dazzled: DC 12, 1 round, removes the penalty

Diseased: DC = poison DC +5; 1 minute; grants the victim a +4 bonus to his next save, +1 per 5 points the check exceeds the DC.

Fatigued: DC 15, 1 round, halves the penalty (can be done only once)

Nauseated: DC 20, 1 minute, reduces the patient to sickened (I made it so that someone who is sickened and gets sickened again becomes nauseated)

Poisoned: DC = poison DC +5; 1 round; grants the victim a +4 bonus to his next save, +1 per 5 points the check exceeds the DC.

Sickened: DC 15, 1 round, halves the penalty

Staggered: DC 15, 1 round, can take two move actions (staggered is a new condition you acquire when you're at 0 hp, or after recovering from dying; you can take a move or standard action, but not both, and have no penalty to AC. Someone who's staggered and gets staggered again is dazed)

Stunned: DC 25, 1 round, reduced to dazed (the step between staggered and stunned)

Unconscious (due to nonlethal damage): DC 20, 1 round; victim recovers 1d6 nonlethal damage and regains consciousness.

Fast healing: The PC can attempt a Heal check in half the normal time (a standard action instead of a round, or 5 rounds instead of 1 minute); this increases the DC by 10.