On the State of Digital Aids for D+D/D20/OGL

[Taurendil]

There isn't. This has been something that has been on my mind for a while. Honestly, PCGen gets way more love then GMGen. Especially with the large architecture changes needed in PCGen, it's hard to really dedicate time to GMGen. But, I'll see what I can do about adding this sooner then later.

While I think the treasure-chest would be very nice I do agree that the pcgen core has to come first right now, otherwise you'll just keep on building on quicksand.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

While I think the treasure-chest would be very nice I do agree that the pcgen core has to come first right now, otherwise you'll just keep on building on quicksand.

Unfortunately this thread seems to have devolved into a discussion about the pros/cons/development of PCgen. Not what I really intended, but oh well...

What I had hoped was to generate some new ideas, furor over the status quo, and consumer demand---hopefully it rang some bells with folks.

 

[Mercule]

Unfortunately this thread seems to have devolved into a discussion about the pros/cons/development of PCgen. Not what I really intended, but oh well...

What I had hoped was to generate some new ideas, furor over the status quo, and consumer demand---hopefully it rang some bells with folks.

Eh, it's a bit like starting a discussion on "what are some good word processing apps?" and not expecting half the conversation to be about MS Word, with a chunk of OpenOffice thrown in.

On the plus side, you can look at discussion about what people would like to see in PCGen as a general reflection of what they'd like to see in chargen software.

 

[soulcatcher]

Unfortunately this thread seems to have devolved into a discussion about the pros/cons/development of PCgen. Not what I really intended, but oh well...

What I had hoped was to generate some new ideas, furor over the status quo, and consumer demand---hopefully it rang some bells with folks.

That's probably partially my fault, but I can't really speak to what other teams can provide. A general thread of uses and ideas for this type of software is very useful though, and I think this thread has substantially improved the chances that you'll see at least some of the ideas actually appear in software form sooner then later.

Devon

 

[noretoc]

With all the discussion of the needs of the user I though I'd elaborate on what I Want in a tool to help with gaming... these are 10,000 foot statements - and made for discussion as I realize not everyone has the same wants or needs in software.

As a GM or Player I personally am not going to be sitting at my game with a laptop trying to on-the-fly calculate or modify scores - i use paper books for that during a game session and I tend to use tools as between session utilities to manage information, character notes, etc.

I feel the tools need to be modular in nature - allowing users to set a "role" and tailor the interface for that role - so if I'm a player and only care about my character I don't need to see the Campaign Organizations or Monster information, but a DM might need all of those things for session prep. I think the core product would be a Character Generator/Manager - everything else would build on as a module that could be hidden or not even loaded unless needed - so from step one knowing how I want to use the software this session determines the interface I see.

I will pipe in for my favorite program and give you the goods and bads. I DM with DM genie, and I can't imangine running a game without it these days.

Character Generation and Management: I need a tool that is powerful enough to create a character Inferring the SRD core rules as a base data set. The tool must allow me to easily enter custom data from new source material - for instance I want to be able to take a supported character through the process of leveling without any input other than selecting feats, allocating skill points and calculating class advancement - using core and custom entered information, and updating inventory if needed.

Dm Genie is great for this. [good]Pick your class, it calculates BAB, Saves, spells, you pick feats, skills, which spells if it is a choice, etc.
[bad] classes not on srd - you have to add it or find one done.

Additionally I want a tool that allows me to make simple expansions to the character options on the fly - so if say at 3rd level my Fighter takes a feat from "Complete Warrior" I can enter relevant information and have it applied to the character sheet. Numerical systems that are affected would show this and the entry tool would allow for "standard" feats that don't alter or institute a new rule system. It would also give me the option to append or add this entered data into the options for future characters as a part of the custom data set.

DM genie allows this by adding a feat, refreshing and bang it is there to pick. The bad thing is feats require scripting. Complicated feats can require complicated scripts if you want them to work automatically. Easy feats can use a real simple comand that adds or removes a condition. A condition editor allows you to add bonuses to skills, attacks, etc. Use a drop down menu to pick what the bonus get applied to, what type of bonus, and its value, and done (DM Genie keeps track of stacking). That that condition can be used by the feat you made, other feats, or even on the fly. [/quote]

Similar functional wizards should exist to enter simple classes and class progression and abilities under simple existing systems with text to describe the features - for instance I could then create a Samurai class - with its class abilities and class BAB and Save progressions from the source material. This would also cover the concept of PrCs with no major rule system introductions. (Text descriptions tied to abilities should cover class powers unless it is a permanent bonus)

In the case of spellcasting classes the tool should allow users to define the spell progression, bonus spells, and spell slots or spells per day similar to the Cleric, Sorc or Wiz systems - for instance the Warlock may use Invocations instead of spells but effectively they could be modeled using the original spell class systems - its mostly verbiage.

There also needs to be tools to enter typical data following the spell and item description formats for custom data easily. Entering all the Incantations in from the base Warlock list should be simple as they follow certain formats. Entering new spells - the same. New items and new magic items with numerical effect should be handled in a similar form.

All of these interfaces should be as simple as possible and created using an attractive wrapper to make it feel more like a D&D tool and less like a spreadsheet.

DMGenie has a new class generator that allows you to use a tabbed interface to add all the class data. It is simple and intuitive. Pick a bab value, 1, 3/4, 1/6 and it figures the BAB. Tell it which saves are good and bad, it figures it. Spell casting, psionics, no problem. Use a class list already there or create a custom one. Prestige classes that just add one level to a previous spellcasting class, done. I have seen a warlock class. It added each incantation as a spell. Spells had the aformentioned condition with them, so you make the condition, then cast the spell add the condition for so many rounds (the duration) and it applies the bonus. (See combat tracker below)

The program should allow purchase and equipment of Core items that can calculate weight and apply any "permanent" benefits to the character if wielded/worn/etc.

Items all have weight. The apply to your character. You can set an item not to include its weight with a right click. Also you can make a container for a bag of holding where all item in it do not add thier weight. Drag and drop allows you to move things from one character to another, or to an adventure, etc. DM genie, uses the conditions above again and can attach them to an item. Equip item, bang condition is on, bonuses apply. For thoes that are good with scripting, you can script items also. Drink a potion of healing, it rolls and applies to your NPC.

There should also be simple data forms for character information like sex, race, adventuring notes, contacts, relationships, organizations - etc. But this could be a simple Notepad in the character's entry that I could save or print based on the output choices.

The output ideally should be configurable or use a set of templates to allow for different printed results - NPC/Statblock format, Spellbook only, Character with Detailed Descriptions, etc. (PCGen does a good job at this right now for example)

Done. dm genie prints a character sheet (customizable if you html, and plenty all ready made to DL form the website) or a stat block (and part of the character screen has a tab with a constant updated stat block). there are places for notes, background, and even a pic.

Campaign Management: My needs and wants for a Campaign management tool are fairly simple - a place to manage session notes and information, to generate encounters and treasure and ideally be able to populate and update the PC character records after a session with items or special information and experience. I'd love a tool to manage things like the "Organizations" format, maybe a place or tools designed to handle town and village or region oriented information.

Additionally this would be a good place to have an NPC/Monster creation tool - with a simple interface that would allow entry of new foes in standard format - i.e. I could type in the latest Dragon entry from Monster Manual 6 and then have it in the custom dataset for later user - incrementally adding exceptions beside the core public creatures or rules. Obviously it makes sens to me to have the PC Generator/Manager linked here - meaning they would share the same data and thus either DM or PC could enter information and it could be used by either role.

DM genie has it. first a tree on the right to add entries, subentries, sub sub entries to keep it all organized by adevture, and on the left tabs. One tab for description, one for groups (of npc/monsters), one for random encounter charts, one for treasure, one for notes, if you need to write anything about that area, during the adventure. Description is a word proc, with the ability to add links to other parts of the adventures, tabs, or even external files to link to the music file you want to play during the scene. The groups let you add creatures, npc etc, standard or custome (all races use the same database. EAch monster is a race in 3.5 standars, so not only adds a typical member, but use that member and add a pc class or a race class (elemental, dragon, humanioid, vermin) etc to get just what you want. Once you make it it gose into the group. Then it will stay there. Use it later, or if it is an npc keep it. He might run away and show up later. The encoutner tables let you pick monster and plug em in. It you have a encounter, just click it add a group with the number you indicated in the table, and boom combat begins. Treasuer, items, treasure, gold, magic item. Anytime you add anything creatures, items, feats, there is always a link to create new too. [/quote]

For those who use laptops or PCs as GM aids I could see a number of additional tools like Initiative managers, Jump Calculators, treasure generators, etc. but for me I tend to do these things on paper during a game so aside from tools that help me prepare a game I don't have a need of them.

This is where it shines. It keeps track of my party, my npcs, thier items, thier initatives, thier readying, and delaying, thier spells and the bonuses they give. Any timed occurances. Skill checks, saving throws, damage and hit potints. All the condition affecting them. When you play a high level game, and each character has haste, bull str, and owls wisdome, smiting, divine grace, bard song, bless, prayer, higher ground, prone, grapples etc!! I look at the char and know thier ac, hit with thier weapons, damage bonus, etc. everything. If you are a scripter, you can do more. If you know a scripter, they can export the scripts. My version takes a thief adds thier bunes for total defense, add the extra for tumble, add the extra for the thief acrobat levels, etc. I dont have to figure anything. Need a skill check, double click it. Save? double click it. Save for the whole party. Click below the pary window on roll, and select reflex. Put in damage, and dc. it will roll auto highlight all in the spell, and select ful, half if save and it applies damage. your player roll thier own, that ok. select all player who made it hit the button that say "half damage" And this is only half of what it can do. There is a version for players, with no Campaign maanger, so they can keep track of thier characters. Three of my players used the tool. I export thier characters every week after xp, and put them up on the site, so they can load them into thier own version. I also put up character sheets, as they are output in html. There is so much more dm geneie can do and I concider my self a novice user, not an expert. A beginner will do fine. Plus, the designer it constantly improving it with suggestons from his users. Trust me check it out, give it a few to learn, you will never use anything else.

MapMaker: I personally have no need for this. I draw my maps on an erasable battle mat when I use one. Campaign or city maps i also do on paper.

oops no map maker, but a tab I forgot. The map tab where you import a picture. make selectable links on the map by drawing boxes. use counters to place npc, trap etc on the map. It even has a cicle square and cone tool if you want to see who gets hit by what if you use the map to keep track of npcs and players (Which you dont have to do.) there is also a time keeper window (travel times, torch times, and a way to keep track) a dice roller, a weather generator, a calendar tool. .. I have said enough.

 

[LrdApoc]

Sounds like I need to look further into DMGenie. I had an earlier trial version but I don't remember some of those features - maybe its time to reevaluate.

Thanks!

 

[Mercule]

So, will DM Genie handle significant alterations to the D&D framework, like weapon groups and spell points?

How easy would it be to add, say, the Binder class?

 

[noretoc]

I am not familliar with the class. As for weapon groups, how it handles weapon prof, is manually. If you are using a weapon you do not have proficiency with check a box. This isn't automatic, because there are times you wil want to add attacks called unarmed, unarmed & Trip, touch, etc.... Rather than have a set of rules for every possible attack you can add, it allows you to pick non-proficient. If you want a type of spell point system you can use the psionics (copy the spells over) or script a new button to deal with them. If you know scripting, you can make lots of customizations and there is lots of stuff out there to grab. (I know someone did a whole vitality/wound system)

 

[acon360]

DMGenie is the absolute most capable app out there. The problems with DM Genie are that 1) the GUI creates a steep learning curve, along with the complexity of the app, and 2) the scripting feature is quite effective, but again poses a steep learning curve to non-coders.

Honestly, I wish the DMGenie project would open its source. Perhaps some of us could cajole the author to release the source. Maybe setup some kind of bounty for the release of the source??

And ideas on the UI..I would like to take the UI of Neverwinter Nights 2, at least the character management forms, and work them into a winforms app of a similar nature. The new winFX (avalon) api's could also provide some new and interesting possibilities. Unfortunately, thats going to take some pretty good designers to create the controls.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

I've started to play with DMgenie (though I am just using the demo version of player genie). Not too psyched about the interface---I think creating new PCs and adding levels should be on the front page, not buried in sub menus. The leveling wizard seems a bit odd---though that may change with experience.

However it is FAR, FAR faster than PCGen---a very important factor.