D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Maxperson]

I say "why wait?"

You don't have to. Arcane Archer, Echo Knight, Psi Warrior, Rune Knight, etc. all allow you to play supernatural fighters very early on in their careers.

 

[Maxperson]

I'll say it again.

You can have 20 levels of a mundane warrior or rogue.

It either requires

1) the game to explicitly state magic items are required

2) invoke actual high level mundane ability with complex features

The Number 1 problem is that WOTC and a portion of the community demand fighters and rogues to be:

1. Simple with simple mechanics.
2. Require no magic items

I can have 20 levels of mundane warrior with either 1 or 2 right now. Fighters and barbarians work just fine as written for that. The problem is that people want more than is necessary to do well in the game.

 

[Remathilis]

You don't have to. Arcane Archer, Echo Knight, Psi Warrior, Rune Knight, etc. all allow you to play supernatural fighters very early on in their careers.

But then you're limiting the necessary power upgrades that supernatural abilities provide to just the subclass level abilities. 16 other levels have to provide power within the confines of "can't look remotely supernatural".

 

[SkidAce]

That is the problem.

The high level mundane warrior isn't a big dumb "I attack a lot" guy.

They look more like comic book and anime warriors. But that would upset old school grumblers.

I am not upset.

 

[Minigiant]

No. The lore is what I said. Read it more closely and you will see that the different explanations are just different ways to explain the innate spark of intuitive magic. The sorcerous origin is no different than, "I learned to be a battle master" or "I learned to be a champion" or "I trained to be a samurai from a book that I read." It's background that affects your class via subclass. It's not the class itself.

The lore is what is written in the blurb. The issue is the mechanics often barely display that lore in a significant way to justify it.

Not that the lore is not justified for a class. The class design is just weak in order to appease a vocal minority of fans.

 

[Minigiant]

I can have 20 levels of mundane warrior with either 1 or 2 right now. Fighters and barbarians work just fine as written for that. The problem is that people want more than is necessary to do well in the game.

The 5e fighter isn't mundane for 20 levels.

 

[Shardstone]

Sorcerer could work well embracing its "You are a magical thing" nature and having literally dozens of subclasses. Each subclass provides a total of 14 spells (two of each level between 1st to 5th, one of each from 6th to 9th) and 4 cantrips. Then you'd have like Medusa subclass, different kinds of Draconic Soul, different kinds of Divine Soul, etc etc. Just make it the most varied class in the game because screw it, its the year of the Sorcerer.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Or the supernatural. Just call out those supernatural abilities once you get to a certain level, and you're golden.

I refuse. Doing so is an unacceptable total concession; it gives you absolutely everything you ask for, while giving me nothing.

All of those things are supernatural abilities. You don't need spells to be supernatural.

Except that as soon as that concession is made, it's a mile, not an inch. Now this "supernatural" thing must be subjected to the rules that bind the supernatural, and it's going to be whined and cried and complained about because "Fighters shouldn't be supernatural, they're FIGHTERS, they should be FIGHTING, not shooting lightning bolts out of their arses!!!" And all the other attendant things that come with this, which serve ever and always to ensure the dominance of magic over nonmagic, of spellcasters over martials, of Wizards over Fighters.

I won't accept that so-called "compromise" anymore.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The 5e fighter isn't mundane for 20 levels.

You're right!

It doesn't even reach mundane levels of power.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But it's false advertising. A fighter isn't really a badass normal. He's a normal that slowly becomes less badass as he gains less compared to his supernatural allies. After a while, he's no longer the badass. He might be able to slaughter orcs by hundreds, but that means little when they are fighting legions of flying, teleporting demons.

So you're stuck in the classic conundrum. Your badass normal either breaks the fiction by avoiding a fireball by standing utterly still or he's not normal and he is using supernatural abilities to redirect or avoid the fire. That's your Sophie's Choice.

Or you change the rules so you make them have to actually move to use the ability. Inject some verisimilitude into it.