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OOTS #629 is up
- Thread starter Nightson
- Start date
robertliguori
First Post
I agree with the first sentence. And disagree with the second one.
V's player shafted him by obsessing and not resting. I can even see a situation where the DM maybe even took him aside and tried to have a talk, and V's player basically saying "I'll play him how I want."
Sometimes, I love piling on extra drama in my head.
You know, if the dragon had pulled hit-and-runs on the hulls of the Azure City Fleet, then the end result would be the same, only with V and those of his companions he couldn't Overland Flight or Water Walk in time alive. Cast AMF, dive-bomb the survivors into the ocean, swim down until they have no chance of survival, and repeat until only V is alive. Hammer up a nice raft for him, then have the lecture.
Basically, once the GM decides that there is an ancient black dragon with sorcerer levels (CR 21 minimally, don't forget) who has the strategic initiative, the party's actions or preparations are simply moot. There is simply nothing that any of the party can reasonably do against it while they're at sea.
I mean, it might also be the case that deep up in V's family tree, there was a Good soul who went to one of the heavens, worked his way into Solar-hood, and has a readied action to put a full round attack's worth of Dragon Slaying arrows into the ancient black dragon the moment it pops up.
Hell, who says it has to be a Solar, come to that? There are entire planes full of deep-into-Epic entities that want there to continue to be an unSnarled universe, and V is one of the few beings working to that end. The dragon and its revenge, insomuch as that revenge distracts V, puts the dragon up against every power in the cosmos.
I would not be surprised if V's upcoming dialogue with the imp ends up with a fast-track to ultimate arcane power. (The type that goes "I wish that my family were freed from necromantic bondage, I wish my family were resurrected here beside me, and...hold on, I need to Greater Planar Bind a few dozen glazebru...OK. All of you fiends listening? I wish great pain and suffering upon that dragon. Now, go to it. Whoever actually manages to kill it gets first dibs on my soul.")
Slife
First Post
You see, situations like these are EXACTLY why my wizards always pick up Contact Other Plane, and take 10 on the check when they cast it daily.
If V had actually selected decent spells, he wouldn't be in this situation. He could have cast it a few times, had a 99.99% confidence interval he knew where the other party members were, and their current statuses, and been done with the angst train already. Heck, he could probably use it to talk to Roy, although the 1-word answer restriction would be troublesome (although maybe could lead to amusing strips). It's not even like it's a spell that can be prohibited, since divination is impossible to drop for a school specialization.
Then again, if V actually could ask clever questions, the plot would be sorta derailed. And if he could cast the spell, the oracle wouldn't have showed up...
If V had actually selected decent spells, he wouldn't be in this situation. He could have cast it a few times, had a 99.99% confidence interval he knew where the other party members were, and their current statuses, and been done with the angst train already. Heck, he could probably use it to talk to Roy, although the 1-word answer restriction would be troublesome (although maybe could lead to amusing strips). It's not even like it's a spell that can be prohibited, since divination is impossible to drop for a school specialization.
Then again, if V actually could ask clever questions, the plot would be sorta derailed. And if he could cast the spell, the oracle wouldn't have showed up...
catsclaw227
First Post
I am a bit confused...
It sounds like you are implying that the game world doesn't continue to exist outside of the PCs stage time. And that ancient black dragons don't feel revenge, nor do they exact it. And that the encounters, regardless of what crazy BS the players pull off, will always be CR appropriate and not harder than "challenging".
OK... maybe CR appropriate monsters are allowed to feel revenge and attempt to exact it...
Let's reverse it. If a PC had a child killed, then stalked the killer, and found that they were much lower level, then would the PCs be allowed to use their abilities to punish the killer?
V brought all this on him(her)self. Knowing put him(her)self at risk.
Does it make me a bad person if I admit this is almost exactly what I thought of, immediately after reading the strip, and it made me cackle with glee, and want to play my 3E mage again?
PoeticJustice
First Post
/thread
robertliguori
First Post
I am a bit confused...
It sounds like you are implying that the game world doesn't continue to exist outside of the PCs stage time. And that ancient black dragons don't feel revenge, nor do they exact it. And that the encounters, regardless of what crazy BS the players pull off, will always be CR appropriate and not harder than "challenging".
OK... maybe CR appropriate monsters are allowed to feel revenge and attempt to exact it...
Let's reverse it. If a PC had a child killed, then stalked the killer, and found that they were much lower level, then would the PCs be allowed to use their abilities to punish the killer?
V brought all this on him(her)self. Knowing put him(her)self at risk.
How many people has the draconic family wronged in the acquisition of their horde? Might the original adventuring party want a set of sleeping armor to go with their draconic full plate? Given as the Seven Mounting Heavens are explicitly knows about the threat the Snarl poses and the limited number of Prime agents doing something about it, aren't there kind of a literally arbitrary number of higher powers willing to do unto the dragon before the dragon does unto V?
It is exactly the idea of the independent game world that is being strained. There are an infinite number of powers and forces that might choose to involve themselves; stopping at the dragon and not at the dragonslayers eager to avenge the wrongs inflicted in the black dragon's centuries-long life of evil, for example, seems rather arbitrary.
The point is not that it's bad that arbitrary things happen, though. Sometimes the highest power involving themselves in a situation is evil. My objection is to the claim that there is some form of logic or justice in the events presented. The dragon's frankly-unjustifiable paranoia about the ability of the Azure Fleet to respond to boat-smashy is the reason that said fleet is still intact; if the dragon had decided "Screw waiting." and made with even the most basic, conservative, low-risk repeated attack plan, we'd have the exact same situation. V's choices (other than his choice to become an adventurer and follow Roy) simply don't lead to the current situation by any standard other than that of blatant metagaming.
Of course, given that we've seen V make use of such to farm XP with the large devil, and that he recognizes Elan's prowess is related to plot-use, we may see V level in the prestige class Plotomancer, enabling him to gain new abilities as the story demands and ultimately die at the point of maximal dramatic tension.
Alternately, his four words might end up being "Destiny can **** itself.", and he may well acquire four more wizard levels, then brute-force his way past the necromantic binding and murder of his family and splatter the black dragon over three separate planes of existence.
(I'm hoping for that last one.)
LostSoul
Adventurer
You're right, the "game world" is not independant. What happens in it is a direct result of the actions of the protagonists. It's a story, not real life or an attempt to model an independant fantasy world.
The dragon was afraid of the high-level adventurers hanging out with V, not the fleet. He probably should have been, since he was afraid of V until he expended his high-level spells.
In that light, he took the most basic, conservative, low-risk attack plan. He waited until he couldn't lose.
Who made the choices that gave the dragon that perfect opportunity? V did.
In the end, I see it as the author saying something about V's choices and how stupid they were and not metagaming, whatever that means in the context of a comic strip.
LoneWolf23
First Post
I suspect that even if V manages to defeat the dragon and save his/her family, it will be in such a manner that it horrifies V's spouse and children, thus forcing V to leave them behind, thus adding another layer of solitude to the poor Elf Wizard's life, making him/her more vulnerable to the Imp's offers...
