Piracy And Other Malfeasance

And apparently it is believed Queen Anne's Revenge used to be a French slaver ship, before being captured by Teach (Black Beard). That would have almost been a good act, were it not for the fact that he then sold the slaves, and used the money to upgrade the ship with more cannons.

Sure, there were pirates who were not terrible and cruel. But we have to be careful not to romanticize them.

Which is also one of many reasons why I chose to keep the entire topic of slavery out of my D&D pirate campaign. Keep the fun swash buckling, drop the uncomfortable stuff.
 

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Necropolitan

Adventurer
Have it so the PCs are pirates attacking slave ships (either attacking them before they get slaves or afterwards to free the slaves), evil supply ships belonging to the evil empire, other pirate ships, ships full of demons and undead (there's an entire Abyssal realm of pirates laid out in the 3.5 book Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss), etc.

Just have the ships the PC pirates are attacking be morally acceptable to attack.
 

How do you -- if you do at all -- square protagonists who would be the villains in a different genre? What do you do with the crimes they commit? Are all your criminal heroes "thieves with hearts of gold" like Han Solo, or do you indulge in the grittier side of these stories? And if your "heroes" are rough, how do you make the villains stand out?
For me, oftentimes, the thieving is a backstory. We don't spend much time thinking about exactly what Han Solo smuggled*, because it all took place before he did the things we really care about him doing. Likewise, character X in my game Y will often have developed their skills used in acts of derring-do through an unseemly backstory, but that's usually (mostly) in their past -- be that because they've turned a new leaf, or simply because now they are doing bigger and more important things.
*And even Conan -- who is often a hero mostly in the pre-modern sense -- still does most of his piracy, banditry, and marauding safely off-page.

When we do play thieves who actually thieve, or pirates who actually pirate, it is with a conveniently deserving victim. The big bad enemy nation, the robber baron merchant house, 'the Mob,' or the like. The modern Robin Hood depiction is popular because we can see a crook as a plucky underdog if the person they are committing their crimes against is sufficiently odious (or, to jump genres, in John Wick we can get behind an assassin if the people they are up against kill a beagle).

Or it is a crapsack world like Doskvol where it's implied that everyone still alive is willing to be dishonest to survive and both any realistic character in that setting and anyone they take from are all somewhat morally compromised (and even there, you'll probably run into a situation where you're stealing food money from an orphanage, and realizing it's 'Fagin's School for Boys' isn't going to make that sit well).
It should be noted that there were historically also plenty of pirates who were decent people. Just because a person lives a life of crime, does not make them a villain.
We have to be careful about what we are calling "crime". Stealing property and money from the rich is one thing. I expect most of us don't actually care about property crime so long as you aren't leaving people starving in the process.
This is a whole IRL tangled knot. Exactly what you can do and still be 'decent people' has a lot of nuance; and I absolutely care about property crime and not just that that leaves people directly starving, but that which destabilizes basic avenues of commerce upon which any number of innocent people rely on to live their lives. We could have an entire forum, or even a life's work, dedicated to the nuances of 'just crime,' just as one can to 'just war.' However, that's often the kind of hard reality I'm deliberately trying to escape when I roleplay.
Sanction to turn your atrocities against a rival nation doesn't make them less atrocious.
Violently taking another ship at sea, such that human bodies are torn asunder by cannonballs, wooden shrapnel, and cutlass wounds is another kettle of fish. Kind of hard to be considered a "decent person" when your job entails leaving a wake of fire, blood, murder and death.
Piracy is basically just a form of theft. It can involve violence, but it doesn't have to, and often didn't (many preferred not to be mortally wounded, what a surprise). After all, many pirates preferred their victims to surrender without a fight. Atrocities are not a requirement for piracy at all, though a few notorious historical pirates loved commiting them all the same. There were some really cruel pirates.
But intimidation only works if the threat is credible. That generally means actually using violence on occasion to establish that you mean it. Blackbeard took the ship he later renamed the Queen Anne's Revenge by force only after firing a couple of broadsides and killing several men upon it.

"I only sometimes murder people," isn't a ringing moral endorsement.
At the end of the day, IRL piracy is theft through the threat of violence. There isn't a lot of ways to make that somehow 'decent.' However, there were significant times and places in history where non-bloodthirsty pirates would intercept ships with crews with no interest in dying for someone else's goods and said 'you know the drill, hand it over' and everyone went on their way unscathed. That's a nice window for relatively non-awful pirating to happen in a game. Likewise there is the wartime sanctioned piracy as part of war. That's certainly not worse than, y'know, just warring against/killing the other side. And there are plenty of games where we do that (or similar).

Regardless, I don't think the justifications matter all that much. We (my groups, to be clear) don't do a lot of actual piracy in our games because no one actually wants to do much of it. People want to be the pirates who don't do anything -- it is an aesthetic, a motif, a set of genre elements that work well to facilitate an group of adventurers with violence and adventuring skills, mobility, and the relative freedom to go seek the lost treasure of X or defeat the curse monster of island Y or whatnot.
 

TheSword

Legend
I’m currently running Pathfinder’s Skull and Shackles campaign for the second time and absolutely loving it. There are a couple of things I’ve learnt…

- Make sure the players are on board with the idea and create characters willing to engage a bit of piracy.

- The taking of ships is pretty dull after the first or second time so I abstract the actually piracy to be off screen. Or at least condense the assault into a single snapshot encounter of taking the helm or breaking into the stores.

- Always make sure there’s someone much worse - an existential threat - which makes the regular piracy pale by comparison.

- Lean into the swashbuckling element. Double crosses, trickery, escapades etc rather than just combat.

- Have plenty of sea monsters and beasties to let the players let off steam.

- Let folks surrender, on both sides.

- Use asymmetrical foes. Both easier and much harder to encourage the players to make decisions rather than rely on dice rolls.

- Avoid the party making use of slavery even if the theme is present and something the party fight against.

- Lastly and most importantly - Watch Black Sails. It’s a brilliant series that encapsulates almost all that advice.
 

MGibster

Legend
Any time there's talk of pirates, I like to throw this little picture in from one of Disney's children's books. I think Disney forgot what a pirate is.

Pirate.JPG
 

MGibster

Legend
I know the OP used pirates as an example, but even there he pointed out the myriad other ways PCs very much would be considered villains by us. In one Legend of the Five Rings campaign I was running, a player character was an imperial magistrate who needed to question a samurai of low status. As was his right as a magistrate, he sent the low status samurai to be questioned under torture. It marks the only time I've ever had a PC in a game send someone off to be tortured. Nobody in the setting thought less of the magistrate for doing this because it was a widely accepted practice.

There are other games where the PCs are explicitly bad people. In Vampire the Masqurade, the player characters are murderers, thieves, and rapist. Some of you might doubt that last one, but in the game each vampire has their own hunting method which is how they typically acquire blood. An Alley Cat usually beats the tar out of someone, a Farmer keeps a stable of animals, and a Scene Queen feeds from some subculture (like maybe at a particular goth club). There's one called a Siren that feeds during actual or simulated sex. So if you have a vampire who uses their powers to seduce a human, or even if they just use good old fashioned charm, to feed off them during sex, what does that make them?

In a role playing game you take on the role of someone who isn't you. Very often times someone from a different time and place who has different values than you have. In some games, like D&D, we're not really challenged very much as our modern western liberal values fits right into most settings. In other games, that doesn't quite work out so well. It doesn't bother me in the least to play a character who has different values than my own. That isn't to say I'd be 100% comfortable with anything and everything, but I have no qualms about playing a character we'd think was a violent jerk today.
 

MGibster

Legend
- Lastly and most importantly - Watch Black Sails. It’s a brilliant series that encapsulates almost all that advice.
There's a great scene in the first episode where the pirates have taken a merchant ship. They're upset because the haul isn't very good and are hellbent on torturing the merchant captain in case he's hiding gold or other valuables. Captain Flint (the pirate captain for those of you unfamiliar with the show) doesn't really want to torture this guy, so he sits down to have a heart-to-heart with him and comes to believe that there is in fact no more treasure to be had. It dawns on the merchant that even though Flint knows there's no treasure, the tortue is still coming because the crew demands it. "You can't control them, can you?" the merchant says referring to Flint's crew. Black Sails is pretty good about not glossing over the terrible things pirates did.

Another show that's good about not glossing over the less pleasant aspects if Norsemen, or Vikingane if you're from Norway, which is about a bunch of vikings circa 800 AD. While it's a comedy, they don't really shy away from all the nasty things Vikings did. In the first episode the vikings are returning home with slaves and these people are not happy with their status. Later in the season, they go out again for resources and end up slaughtering a bunch of unarmed English people. The writers even went out of their way to show how harmless these people were with all their gold they collected to build that children's hospital. They even aknowledge the sexual assaults that happened. And this is a comedy.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The Hollywood depiction of epic pirate battles, with much cannon fire, explosions and gore, were not a common affair. Most pirates preferred not to lose life and limb for a few coins. Which is why several pirates, such as Black Beard, are said to have relied more on intimidation. A peaceful surrender is a lot easier than half your crew being wounded. Also, when word gets out how awful you treat your prisoners, expect a lot less of those peaceful surrenders when they see your flag.
More important for the pirates, often the most valuable thing they'd be taking would be the other ship itself; which if fast they could add to their fleet or if slow they could sell, or strip for parts.

Thus, preferable not to have to shoot it up too much while taking it. :)
 


Staffan

Legend
Regardless, I don't think the justifications matter all that much. We (my groups, to be clear) don't do a lot of actual piracy in our games because no one actually wants to do much of it. People want to be the pirates who don't do anything -- it is an aesthetic, a motif, a set of genre elements that work well to facilitate an group of adventurers with violence and adventuring skills, mobility, and the relative freedom to go seek the lost treasure of X or defeat the curse monster of island Y or whatnot.
 

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