Planar Templates

[Moonsword]

Okay, why don't I start off with the information I need?

First, details on the generic Shadow Plane from the netbook's standpoint. I'll also start digging through the archives in the mailing group for info.

Second, do we want to use the terms anarchic and axiomatic for chaotic/lawful versions of creatures? I like anarchic, but axiomatic is both cumbersome and could very easily tread on Wizard's toes. Anarchic is a very simple derivitave of standard English. New terms for axiomatic would be nice. Working descriptor: lawful.

Third, what energies do you associate with law and chaos? I want opinions, not hard data. I'm going with cold, acid, and fire for lawful and sonic, fire, and electrical energies for chaotic to base the resistances on. Any dissenting views?

 

[Moonsword]

Alright, I guess I need to define a 'generic' Shadow Plane. At least from the documents in the group's archives, that is. Here we go:

Shadow Plane (generic model):
Type: Between
Size: Universe
Modifiers: Darkness (-2 to Light-based creatures)
Properties: Massless, Dark, Shadow Plane, Fast Travel, Coexistent w/Mortal Plane (others as needed)
Passage: Only certain spells, such as shadow walk , can reach the Shadow Plane.
Description: Cool and with shadowy after-images of the Mortal Plane, the Shadow Plane is a place of entropy gone mad with chaos thrown in for fun. A traveller must have some source of light with them to see unless they have darkvision. Travellers of darkvision can see shadowy images that also tint into blues and violets due to the magical nature of the plane. Long-term denizens adopt the Shadow template, or, more accurately, are slowly transformed into a templated version of that creature.

 

[Moonsword]

Shadow Template
Shadow creatures dwell on the Plane of Shadow primareily, but can also be found in particularly dark corners of Mortal Planes or vicious Outsider Planes. They are more associated with evil than good, but neither is the true description of a shadow being. But many of them are of a darker nature, so the traveller to the Shadow Plane has been warned...

Creating a Shadow Creature
"Shadow" is a template that can be added to any creature except for constructs (hereafter referred to as the base creature). Beasts or animals with this template become magical beasts and humanoids become monstrous humanoids, but otherwise creature type is unchanged.
-A shadow creature uses all the base creature's statistics and abilities except as noted below.
--Special Attacks: The creature gains shadow blast.
---Shadow Blast (Su) : Once per day, a shadow creature can create a cone of shadows that deals (HD/3, minimum one)d8 entropy energy damage to all caught within. Reflex Save DC 10+1/2 HD+Wis modifier for half damage. Shadow creatures are immune to entropy damage.
--Special Qualities: Add 120-ft. darkvision, SR (2*HD, max 25) and pick one option below plus one per four hit dice:
---Damage Reduction: First pick is 2/-. Additional picks add 1 more point.
---Energy Resistance: First pick grants resistance 4 to all energy attacks. Additional picks add 2 more points.
---Luck Bonus: Each pick gives you +2 as a luck bonus to distribute to any single score.
---Plane Shift: Can shift to/from Shadow Plane 1/day as plane shift, 13th level caster.
---Shadowstuff: Immune to negative levels.
---------------------
Challenge Rating: Up to 3 HD, as base creature
4-7 HD, +1
8+ HD, +2
Note: Adjust based on creature and party strength.
Alignment: Often evil (any), rarely good, but sometimes neutral (any)

Inspired by WotC's template, but a little differently implemented. Based heavily on celestial and fiendish templates. The anarchic and lawful templates will be basically clones of the celestial template, with changes to reflect the nature of the creature. Any more ideas for options to reflect the variant nature of the plane itself? All text is OGC.

 

[Khorod]

I don't much like the term lawful for this. However, I also think Chaotic is perfectly fine.

.. wracking my brain, some version of the word law or order is probably best.

As energies go, I agree that Law should have Cold, and that Chaos should have fire and electricity. But acid, as it breaks down the order of an object, should also be chaotic. And sonic, since it is careful patterns made in the surrounding atmosphere, seems lawful.

I'd leave fire out of Law, just because its very nice as a symbol of destruction. Law can also be strongly associated with divination & healing, while chaos can remain more or less focused on its sweeping energy types.

For more on Law & Chaos, read Elric, Corum, and other books of Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series.


***

Shadow Stuff
I don't know about Shadow Blast. A touch attack would be better.

What do you mean by picks? Presumably, you mean the template is sort of scalable. I don't generally like that, a template is not meant to be a flexible way of changing things.

Better yet would be a complete, minor template which acts as a pre-req for a PrC that grants increased shadowy powers.

Also, my memory could be off. But is there ground to stand on in a Massless plane?

 

[ax0n]

Hi Moonsword

First of all, well done on the excellent Shadow template. It looks really good. A bit more flavor text might be in order: what does a 'shadowfied' creature look like? How does it interract with the material plane?

I agree with Khorod: a touch attack might be better than shadow blast. Also, could a shadow creature spawn other shadow creatures or is that jus the undead shadow creature? How do shadow creatures relate to the undead version? Also, wouldn't shadow walk be more succinct and appropriate as a spell-like ability, rather than plane shift.

On the subject of OGC: might it be an idea to attach a copy of the OGL with the NboPl standard copyrigth notice (including additional authors names) with the message?

Lawful/Chaotic Energies: I'm dubious about assigning elements/energies to Law/Chaos. From a purely scientific view, its a meaningless association: energies are neither ordered or chaotic. I can see how Cold might correspond with Order, and how fire/entropy might correspond with Chaos, but the association seems somewhat flimsy. Also, how is electricity a chaotic energu? We use it to power our ordered machines in the 20th century?

In the NboPl we strive for cosmological-agnostic rules - that is rules that say as little about the type of planes or comsology the GM/cosmologist is trying to create. Thsi is why I tend to shy away from defining things like 'associated' energy types. I could be wrong here, tho. Ideas?

Lawful/Chaotic Creature Names: A quick look at a thesaurus often assists in these occasions:

Order
Pattern Creatures
Symmetrions
Symmetric Creatures
Uniform Creatures
Harmonites

Chaos
Ataxians
Discordians
Jumbles

Finally, did you check out the Basic Planes section from Plane Descriptions 1.8? It already contains a proto-type of a NboPl Shadow Plane description which you might like to use in your version?

 

[Khorod]

Well, just because the plane descriptions tries to be cosmically neutral doesn't mean energy associations can't be worked out.

I go with the Elric approach on Chaos/Law. Its not that an energy is chaotic itself, but that it has a chaotic affect on the world. Anything that speeds up, causes destruction, uncertainty, or change is Chaotic. Thus most any postive energy is Chaotic.

Anything that slows things down, makes them orderly, simplifies etc, is Lawful. In Elric, the pure extremes are everything at once and nothing throughout time. Make of that what you will...

Personally, I prefer to not associate a specific energy type with a given alignment. Rather, I prefer some themes in what the servants and items of a particular alignment in a particular cosmos/religion/etc are going to use.


On the shadows... I interpreted this template as having nothing to do with Undeath, just a restructuring of a creature's form to adapt to a shadow plane. The template is sort of a Shadow subtype with some bonus powers attached.

 

[Moonsword]

Precisely, Khorod. That's why I said 'entropy' damage, rather than any energy form. As for shadow blast, it could be a touch attack. This was a working prototype, not the final product.

I really do like Anarchs for Chaos creatures, but Discordians could easily work. The only possible problem with that is that 'discord' has a negative connotation. In alignment terms, it leans more towards CE than CN. I think we could term all Chaotic creatures Chatoic and then develop names for each subset of the alignment. Anarchs for CN, Discordians for CE, maybe Wanderers for CG? On Lawful, I like Symmetrions. Organized and ultra-lawful.

For energy associations, I would note that the MM associaitons have little to do with logic. I can make strong arguments on both sides for the Good-Evil alignment for any energy except sonic in general and acid for Good. How about these:
Chaos- Electricity, Acid
Lawful- Ice, Sonic
Fire would be the wild card in the equation. Chaos is not destructive in and of itself, but merely disapproving of a rigid order to life. Fire is a destroyer that simply consumes, and while it is chaotic, chaos is not merely destruction to it's essence. Acid breaks things down to simpler forms and electricity is the result of the wild storms. Ice freezes things into a single place in the cosmos and sonic is weaved by music into forms that follow an order merely to be considered pleasant and proper.

 

[ax0n]

On Energy and Alignments: I think the problem here is that energies either don't really have alignments or, if they do, its ambigious and dependent on the emphasis you want to use in your cosmology.

For example, Cold could be a force of absolute Order and innertness. However, one could also argue that Cold is the product of absolute Entropy (or Chaos). Similarly, high states of energy seem chaotic, but are actually required for any sort of order to form.

On names: I especially like the idea of Discordians being a general name for all CE creatures, for example Tanar'ri. Symmetrions could be creatues like those on the Material Plane, only completely symettrical and ordered (a fish with four 'sides' for example?) Not sure I like Anarchs: has too many associations with political anarchism. Suggestions anyone?

 

[Moonsword]

Okay, let me state the exact reason I'm trying to match energy types to the templates: gmae balance. I'mtrying to make these as one-size-fits-all and quick as the clestial/fiendish templates are. More detailed forms and more powerful ones can be saved for situaitons. Developing them will be easier once we have the general form of the 'generic' template down.

I guess the quick-and-dirty solution is to just say 'pick two energy types' for chaos to represent the sheer randomness of chaotic energy and pick the two energy forms you like for Order, make a note, and use 'em in that campaign. How's that?

As for names, I _like_ anarchs for just that association. Since when to common names have to be dead on accurate? Most peasants, who are the ones likliest to use the 'common' name, don't give a flip about accurate sterotypes. A more formal term can be used for them in polite, educated speech, but 'Anarchs' for chaotic springs right to mind. It's one of the easiest names to remember, in my opinion.

A note on Symmetrions: They don't have to be perfectly symmetric in all dimensions. But color and exact placement of limbs in exatly the same spot from an angle perpindicular to the body _is_ important. Even as highly-evolved creatures as humans have diferent sized limbs, body parts, etc. on the same body. One foot is smaller than the other. We're technically symmetric from a biological standpoint, at least on the outside. A symmetrion would be _perfectly_ symmetric, inside and out. All organs are mirror-images of each other or else they're split right down the middle. The lines of the creature are more perfect and defined, as well. I imagine trying to desvribe the neuroscience involved would drive a brain surgeon nuts, but fortunately we have magic to fall back on. A side consequence of this perfect symmetry is that symmetrions are always ambidextrous or multidextrous and gain the appropriate feat for free.

Good or bad?

 

[ax0n]

I see where you are coming from Moonsword. I think it might be an idea to think of other ways of representing Chaos creatures and Law creatures resistance to damage. For example, I think there is an argument for giving Law creatures a resistance to Cold. Law creatures might gain some advantage from ordeliness: for instance, automatically rolling a specific number (say 10) on certain dice rolls, i.e. in combat. Similarly, Chaos creatures might be regenerative as they constantly shift into new forms, or might take damage from the stifling order of cold?

Anarchs is a good name, it jsut has associations with other things, anarchists, the Anarchs sect from Planescape, Anarchs from Vampire: The Masquerade. Its a good name for chaotic creatures, I just think its been overused a little. Still, thinking about it I could probably be swayed. While we are on the subject what about names for other alignments? CG, LE, LG, N?

I totally agree with you on Symmetrions: your concept seems to be coming along nicely. Go on, write that template... you know you want to