PrC Drunken Boxer

[B4cchus]

Before i go into balancing issues, here are some comments on some of the abilities:
Bottoms up: what kind of penalties and bonusses are involved (e.g. circumstance? alchemical?)

improvised weapons: How does proficiency come into play? Does he recieve any penaly for using improvised weapons?

drunken dance: what kind of ac bonus is involved? a dodge bonus?

numb: i think it would be better to state this as DR or does this only entail e.g. melee damage?

prone attack: does the DB still het AC penalties from being prone?

bathing elephant: remove the text that the target blocks the attack with it's hand (or a beholder will be in trouble)

ac +1: what kind of ac bonus is invilved?

staggering target: maybe you could exchange this for uncanny dodge? The 'opushing the attack' part is a bit confusing

healing booze: change the 'previously dranken beverage'. this implies that is the DB drank a beer in the monrning he can change it into a healing potion many hours later.
what is the effcetive caster level of the potion (a standard lvl 3 for 2d8+3 hp?)

pass put: maybe use feint here?

ac +1: see ac +1

improved numb: see numb

improved bottoms up: see bottoms up

What kind of hitdie dies a DB have?

 

[KriticalFailure]

Before i go into balancing issues, here are some comments on some of the abilities:
Bottoms up: what kind of penalties and bonusses are involved (e.g. circumstance? alchemical?)

---> ?? i thought the penalties and bonuses were listed?? +2 to STR or CON and -2 to both WIS and INT for each drink consumed...

improvised weapons: How does proficiency come into play? Does he recieve any penaly for using improvised weapons?

---> Sorry i didnt put that the DB is proficient with improvised weapons and does not receive any penalties.

drunken dance: what kind of ac bonus is involved? a dodge bonus?

---> Yes it is a Dodge bonus, sorry I didnt write that.

numb: i think it would be better to state this as DR or does this only entail e.g. melee damage?

--->I'm not sure how to write it as a DR >.< otherwise I would have.

prone attack: does the DB still het AC penalties from being prone?

--->No AC penalties from being prone.

bathing elephant: remove the text that the target blocks the attack with it's hand (or a beholder will be in trouble)

---> Haha touché, i keep thinkng of bar fights but i need to broaden my views.

ac +1: what kind of ac bonus is invilved?

---> Similar to the Monk's AC Bonus.

staggering target: maybe you could exchange this for uncanny dodge? The 'opushing the attack' part is a bit confusing

--->i know its a bit confusing but i'd like to make it work. I want to DB to be able to make two flanking opponents attack each other. So i want to DB to be able to redirect the attacks that miss him into the other opponent. im just not sure how to word it atm.

healing booze: change the 'previously dranken beverage'. this implies that is the DB drank a beer in the monrning he can change it into a healing potion many hours later.
what is the effcetive caster level of the potion (a standard lvl 3 for 2d8+3 hp?)

--->Well, I don't see the DB being drunk all the time, plus the drinks that he does consume out of combat i dont see affecting him in any way other than making him drunk. I was thinking that to gain benefits from drinks, the drinking must start when an encounter starts. and yes the standard lvl looks good to me.

pass put: maybe use feint here?

---> Isn't faint just faking an attack to suprise the enemy? I was trying to change things up a bit and have him actually pass out. Dunno, just thought it would be fun, but if its too complicated...

ac +1: see ac +1

---> Monk AC

improved numb: see numb

---> see numb

improved bottoms up: see bottoms up

---> see bottoms up

What kind of hitdie dies a DB have?

---> wow i completely forgot to write that.......i was thinking d8.

Also, for the lvl 10 ability i tossing around the idea of a Projectile Vomit type thing where he spits out all the alcohol in his body, dealing 1d10 (for all drinks in his body...i.e- if he has 3 drinks in him still he does 3d10) damage to all targets withing a 15ft cone...targets must also make a will save to not puke as well...i think he would be dealing acidic damage to all the targets seeing as he would be puking stomache acids as well with the alcohol.

 

[Bront]

DR is easy.

DR 5/- is 5 points of DR to any physical (read, non-magical/elemental attack). DR 5/Adamantine is 5 points of DR that can be ignored by Adamantine.

DR 5/- is fairly hefty already. I might suggest 3 and 6 for numb and improved numb.

Belch would work better as "stunned", not knocked out.

I dislike Healing Booze, just because it seems like a wonky mechanic. But, in addition to that, it basicly turns a 1 CP beer into a 300 GP potion 3 times per day, which might as well be a self healing ability. Few self healing abilities heal that much damage till extremely high levels (6d8+9, average 36, so 12th level Paladin with Charisma of 6, or 18th level paladin with charisma of 14, but that's just the average. Max of 51, which is 17th level for the Cha 16 paladin).

Pass out, I don't like the save mechanic. Might be better to have it be a spot check or sense motive check with some DC or be flat footed, and the attack does extra damage to flat footed opponents (And probably something like an extra 2d6).

 

[KriticalFailure]

Tahnk you for the feedback, check the top for changes

 

[B4cchus]

Making progress!

here are some new comments:

Overall: you refer to the DB "being drunk" in several abilities. Either clearify what this entails or you could refer to the Bottoms up ability (so that these abilities last as long as bottoms up lasts).

Bottoms up: i meant to ask what type are the bonusses (e.g. circumstance, alchemical, etc.?) See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#modifierTypes

Improvised weapon: change the term "attack power" to "attack rolls".

Drinken dance: copy the mechanics form the dodge feat (During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.

A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses. )

Numb: how long does it last?

Bathing elephant: maybe this works better as a ranged touch attack or area attack (granting a ref save like you mentioned, no attack required) I don't see a studded leather protecting anyone against it..

Belch: i don't like the secondary effect. I think it is good enough without this. Otherwise i suggest stunned as a secondary effect and missing the save by 5 or more as the trigger (instead of half).

AC +x: does this stack with the monk ac bonus? If so, please mention this.

Staggering target: I don't like the mechanic. It is unclear and to cumbersome. I suggest the following: While being flanked, the first attack from the flanking opponent who is designated as the DB's dodge opponent autamaticly misses the DB and may hit the other flanking opponent. The opponent making the attack rolls an attack roll against the other flanking opponent AC instead. If he hits, he damages the other opponent.

Healing booze: i don't like it flavour wise but it seems fine otherwise.

Pass out: What kind of action is involved? does the DB fall on the ground (is thus is prone)? 2d8 sounds rather steep.

Improved numb: what is the effect? how long does it last?

Improved bottoms up: with a +4/-4 this ability isn't all that great (the max bonus is still limited to the penalty to your mental stats). It only saves a little time. I suggest a +4 bonus and only a -2 penalty.

Projectile vomit: how do you keep record of the number of drinks the db has in his body? all drinks he drank today? the last hour? this encounter? Also, stipulate that this effects any bonus from things like bottoms up. I suggest a REF save for half damage. Also, rearrange your wording. Right now it suggests you get a 15'cone for each drink, not 1d10.
What are the effects of 'vomiting'? i suggest you use 'sickened for X rounds' instead.

On balancing: I feel that this PrC is overpowered. It gets goodies at each level and two on most levels. Further, each ability is also quite good. It doesn't have any dead levels or 'filler' abilities (like the rogue's trap sense).
I think there are two ways of fixing this: remove some abilities or power down a good deal of the abilites.

Compare it to the dwarven defender PrC, it has some surpising similarities (DR, uncanny dodge, compare defensive stance to bottoms up) The dwarven defender is a lot harder to get in to and lacks a great deal of power compared to the DB.

Also, do any monk abilites increase with levels of the PrC? (unarmed damage, flurry, etc)? If not, the flurry of blows prereq. seems pointless.

 

[KriticalFailure]

ok I tried to balance him out a bit more but i think i stuill have a long way to go, thx for the input , for changes check the first post.

 

[KriticalFailure]

**bump for review**

 

[IcyCool]

Also, do any monk abilites increase with levels of the PrC? (unarmed damage, flurry, etc)? If not, the flurry of blows prereq. seems pointless.

I'd like to point out that I agree with this. Just once I'd like to see an unarmed prestige class that you don't have to be a monk to get into. And Reaping Mauler doesn't count. That, and the concept of a "drunken fighter" doesn't exactly scream lawful to me.

I'll try to give you some better feedback later today, but for now my two cents comes to this: Does Flurry of Blows have to be a pre-requisite? If not, would it hurt to remove it, or replace it with something less class-specific? (The feats Improved Unarmed Strike, Endurance, and Toughness all come to mind.)

 

[KriticalFailure]

As to the lawful part, i havent really set an alignment yet for the Drunken Boxer, honestly I was leaning more towards any chaotic or neutral. But, I think that the drunken boxer should be able to be lawful seeing as Jackie Chan in Drunken Fist was definately a lawful character who practiced Drunken Fist. As to the flurry of blows, I'm not sure whether or not I'm going to make it a feat you get when you become a Drunken Boxer or a prereq...The only other classes I can see becoming a Drunken Boxer are Fighters and Barbarians


edit: Also, if the prereq of Flurry of Blows was taken off, should the unarmed damage start lower for PC's that didnt start off as a Monk seeing as they wouldnt be as proficient with their fists as a Monk would be....

 

[Boddynock]

As to the lawful part, i havent really set an alignment yet for the Drunken Boxer, honestly I was leaning more towards any chaotic or neutral. But, I think that the drunken boxer should be able to be lawful seeing as Jackie Chan in Drunken Fist was definately a lawful character who practiced Drunken Fist. As to the flurry of blows, I'm not sure whether or not I'm going to make it a feat you get when you become a Drunken Boxer or a prereq...The only other classes I can see becoming a Drunken Boxer are Fighters and Barbarians


edit: Also, if the prereq of Flurry of Blows was taken off, should the unarmed damage start lower for PC's that didnt start off as a Monk seeing as they wouldnt be as proficient with their fists as a Monk would be....

OK, but if you set Flurry of Blows as a prerequisite, then you in effect demand that the PC be lawful, since a monk must be lawful. If they change alignment from Lawful to non-Lawful, they become an "ex-monk". I would suggest that you'd be better off looking for prerequisite feats rather than a class ability like Flurry.

As to unarmed damage, I wouldn't change it. Yes, it's a bigger benefit for a non-monk who takes the PrC than for a monk who does - but the non-monk has, in effect, had to work harder to achieve the prerequisites, if you include preprequisite feats which the monk gets for free. And there are plenty of people out there who would happily play a brawler (based on Fighter or Barbarian), rather than a monk.