PrC - Holy Voice (approved)

Wik

First Post
1) Class already has huge skill prereqs for a Paladin, pre-req wise
2) Hit Die Drop is a factor.
3) Holy Voice loses Turn Undead, Smite, and a Mount, pretty much.
4) Turn undead loss is a big one, especially because you had to take Extra Turning as a feat to get the PrC! Sure, it lets you use some PrC powers, but the big one (turning) isn't really available anymore.

About the only in-char addition I could make would be to require Iron Will as a feat, or something silly like that. But, really, I think this PrC is already fairly balanced.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Trouvere

Explorer
Wik said:
Clarified the Free Multi-Classing between Paladin and Holy voice.
I was clear on that. I was wondering whether taking a non-paladin level has (should have) any effect on continuing or starting in Holy Voice. For example, can a Paladin 5 / Fighter 1, who can no longer advance as Paladin (stupid, imo, but that's the way it is), still become a Holy Voice?

Holy Voice is a little more clericy/bardy than straight paladin, so I could see it dropping to medium BAB - that's still only a loss of 2 over the 5 levels (and doesn't delay acquisition of the first iterative attack), and finishing on BAB +18 is not so terrible.

Perhaps some of the abilities could cost more than one turn attempt? E.g. the Fearless and Healing Auras could cost a turn attempt for each ally affected.

I'd be sad to see this one rejected.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Wik said:
1) Class already has huge skill prereqs for a Paladin, pre-req wise
2) Hit Die Drop is a factor.
3) Holy Voice loses Turn Undead, Smite, and a Mount, pretty much.
4) Turn undead loss is a big one, especially because you had to take Extra Turning as a feat to get the PrC! Sure, it lets you use some PrC powers, but the big one (turning) isn't really available anymore.

About the only in-char addition I could make would be to require Iron Will as a feat, or something silly like that. But, really, I think this PrC is already fairly balanced.
The Paladin Turn Undead was already a joke. In my years of playing D&D 3.X (since the day the 3.0 PH came out, as we ironically were at the end of high school in the middle of playing 2e when that happened, my mom brought over the 3.0 PH I had reserved, and we dropped everything to make a new game), I have never ever ever seen a Paladin successfully turn undead on a non-trivial encounter. This is due to the Paladin having -3 Cleric level on that Turning Check.

I would consider the Paladin without any Turn Undead (but they can keep the attempts to use for something else, they just can't turn undead) to be equivalent to the Paladin with Turn Undead, and the PrC gives them something non-worthless to use them with (and since we allow Divine Might, that's something else that they can use the Extra Turning with). Turn Undead is hardly the 'big one' for Paladins. It is, in my experience, their most worthless ability (even including Remove Disease 1/week, another stinker).

For the others, you have to consider that this is only a 5-level PrC. So the Paladin does not lose the Mount. In fact, they can't get into this PrC as a straight Paladin without already having the Mount. Their Mount just has its abilities slowed by 5 levels (heck, level 15 is the cutoff for the 15-20 bracket of Mount abilities, so the Paladin20 and the Paladin15/HolyVoice5 will have identical mounts). The loss of 5 points of damage from the main Smite that they can use once or twice a day until high levels is more than compensated by the new ability to make probably 8 or 9 more weaker Smites a day.

The skill reqs cost a lot of points, but a Paladin who wasn't taking Knowledge Religion is pretty pathetic anyway (and the hypothetical non-Holy-Voice Turn Undead Paladin who somehow turns undead is going to almost require having 5 ranks for the synergy, at least), not even knowing about their own god, and since Paladins are almost always in the thick of battle when they cast their spells, lacking Concentration is likewise foolhardy.

I'm just saying--if the Holy Voice had no prereqs at all other than Special Mounts and just said 'All 5+ Paladins welcome', you would still see most Holy Voices with nearly all those skill ranks purchased and the Extra Turning feat too.

@Trouvere--I would be sad to see this one rejected too. It seems pretty cool. I'd be happy if it changed just slightly and then was accepted.
 

Wik

First Post
Sure. Fair enough. I'll add Iron Will to the feat list - it's pretty much a throwaway for the average paladin, who doesn't need to worry too much about his saves. But, it is still useful - I hate having to completely throwaway a feat to get into a PrC (dwarven defenders and toughness is the main offender in that category).

Trouvere - as it's written now, it just says that Holy Voice levels count as paladin levels - if you multi-class out, you pretty much lose the paladin progression option.
 

Wik

First Post
[sblock=Holy Voice]

HOLY VOICE

Many deities grant powers to paladins, who serve as a weapon against their deity's enemies. Holy orders of Paladins quest against demons, undead, and abberations, whether it be in the name of Hyrag, Halina, or any of the other gods of the land.

However, some paladins are more than just dedicated to their holy patron. Some, for reasons unknown to them, feel a direct bond to their deity that transcends that typically felt by holy men. Some paladins instead become almost an avatar of their deity, someone infused with just a spark of divine will.

These paladins, referred to as Holy Voices, have been placed in the faith of their patron. No longer do they follow the precepts of their church; they are the will of their lord, on the mortal planes. While many churces resent the independance of Holy Voices, they do not question the ultimate source of the Voice's power.

Deities do not maintain many holy voices at once - the number of Holy Voices dedicated to any single deity at any one time is usually less than five. Instead, each deity makes use of his holy voices sparingly, sending them on quests that are sometimes beyond the reach of churches occasionally bogged-down by bureaucracy.

While Holy Voices can often hear their deity speak to them in (often cryptic) dreams, they do not have a direct link to their deity at all times. They can contact their deity through spells beyond the ken of most paladins, but are not the deity's mouthpiece by any stretch. In fact, many Holy Voices resent their deities at times, feeling that their god has placed too much responsibility on their mortal shoulders.

Holy Voices are seperate entities of their church, and often feel as if their powers and obligations override those of their god's church. In fact, subtle struggles between Holy Voices and church leaders occur all too often, with Holy Voices often pursuing a more active (and typically a little less "realistic") pursuit of their deity's goals on the material plane.

Holy Voices have always remained "behind the scenes", quietly pursuing their patron god's agenda. Hey are the brave knights of Hyrag who fight lone battles against a horde of orcs, or the noble warriors of Zephos who seek to bring peace to the dying on a battlefield, regardless of personal cost.

Curiously, Halina has never had a Holy Voice known to be connected to her.

Holy Voices are typically known only to senior members of the church; lay folk simply regard Holy Voices as lone followers of a deity.

Hit Die: d8

Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks
Feat: Extra Turning, Iron Will
Special: Lay on Hands
Language: Celestial


Class Skills
The Holy Voice's Class skills are Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.

Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier

Code:
Table:  Holy Voice
Level    BAB    Fort    Ref    Will    Special
1         +1     +2       +0     +0     Paladin Spells, Lay On Hands, Fearless Aura
2         +2     +3       +0     +0     Extra Domain
3         +3     +3       +1     +1     Morale Aura
4         +4     +4       +1     +1     Voice's Wrath
5         +5     +4       +1     +1     Healing Aura

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: If the character is not already proficient, he receives proficiency in his deity's favoured weapon.

Paladin Spells: The character continues to gain spells as a paladin. Holy Voice levels count as paladin levels for determing the number of spells a paladin can cast per day, caster level, etc. However, Holy Voice levels do not improve upon the number of times per week a Paladin can cast Remove Disease, a Paladin's Smite Attack, Paladin's Mount, or Turning Undead.

Lay on HandsHoly Voicelevels stack with paladins when determining the amount of hit points healed by the lay on hands ability.

Extra Domain: At 2nd level, the Holy Voice can select one domain granted by his deity. He gains one additional spell slot for each paladin spell level he has access to; this spell must be taken from this extra domain. Thus, a 5th level Paladin/2nd Level Holy Voice with the Healing Domain could cast Cure Light Wounds as a bonus Domain spell.
However, the Holy Voice does not benefit from the regular domain ability.
If the character already has domain spells (such as if he were a cleric), this bonus stacks with the Cleric's existing domains.

Fearless Aura: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts as a standard action, the Holy Voice projects an aura that calms his allies. For a number of rounds equal to his Holy Voice level plus his charisma modifier, all allies that remain within 20 feet of the Holy Voice are immune to all fear effects.
Note that allies within the aura are immune to further fear effects; any fear effects that they suffered before the aura was activated still remain.

Morale Aura: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts for the day as a standard action, the Holy Voice projects an aura that invigors his allies. All allies that remain within 30 feet of the Holy Voice receive a +1 morale bonus on melee attack rolls and damage rolls. This ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to the character's Holy Voice level plus his charisma modifier.

Voice's Wrath: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts, the Holy Voice can make a single attack infused with a little bit of divine essence. He spends the Turn undead attempt as part of making a standard attack.
The Voice's Wrath attack is considered to be made by a Good weapon, for purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction. It has a +4 bonus to attack, and deals a number of points of extra damage equal to the Holy Voice's class level.
In addition, the attack deals +1d6 damage against Evil creatures.
A character cannot activate Voice's Wrath any round in which he is also making a smite attack.

Healing Aura: At 5th level, the Holy Voice is able to heal nearby allies. By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts as a free action, the Holy Voice can use his Lay on Hands ability on any willing target within 20 feet. Lay on Hands can be used as normal, with the exception that the Holy Voice does not need to physically lay hands on the target.
The Holy Voice can, if he so chooses, heal multiple targets with this ability, splitting up points from his Lay on Hands ability among all eligible targets.


Note: Holy Voice levels do not count as taking levels in another class, for purposes of a Paladin's multi-class restrictions. A 5th level Paladin/2nd Level Holy Voice can freely multi-class between both. Taking levels in other classes (such as fighter) still counts as multi-classing, and thus prevents taking levels in the Paladin class.
[/sblock]

There, added Iron Will as a feat, and further clarified the multi-classing.
 

Trouvere

Explorer
How about Improved Turning? Now there's a wasted feat :]

Still not there on the multiclassing thing. I realise Paladin progression gets killed by taking another class subsequently, but Holy Voice progression as written does not. So a Paladin 6 / Holy Voice 1 / Fighter 1 can no longer take Paladin levels, but can continue through Holy Voice. Is that the way you want it?
 

Wik

First Post
Trouvere said:
How about Improved Turning? Now there's a wasted feat :]

Still not there on the multiclassing thing. I realise Paladin progression gets killed by taking another class subsequently, but Holy Voice progression as written does not. So a Paladin 6 / Holy Voice 1 / Fighter 1 can no longer take Paladin levels, but can continue through Holy Voice. Is that the way you want it?

Yeah. I see no reason why not. It's not an uber PrC.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Wik said:
[sblock=Holy Voice]

HOLY VOICE

Many deities grant powers to paladins, who serve as a weapon against their deity's enemies. Holy orders of Paladins quest against demons, undead, and abberations, whether it be in the name of Hyrag, Halina, or any of the other gods of the land.

However, some paladins are more than just dedicated to their holy patron. Some, for reasons unknown to them, feel a direct bond to their deity that transcends that typically felt by holy men. Some paladins instead become almost an avatar of their deity, someone infused with just a spark of divine will.

These paladins, referred to as Holy Voices, have been placed in the faith of their patron. No longer do they follow the precepts of their church; they are the will of their lord, on the mortal planes. While many churces resent the independance of Holy Voices, they do not question the ultimate source of the Voice's power.

Deities do not maintain many holy voices at once - the number of Holy Voices dedicated to any single deity at any one time is usually less than five. Instead, each deity makes use of his holy voices sparingly, sending them on quests that are sometimes beyond the reach of churches occasionally bogged-down by bureaucracy.

While Holy Voices can often hear their deity speak to them in (often cryptic) dreams, they do not have a direct link to their deity at all times. They can contact their deity through spells beyond the ken of most paladins, but are not the deity's mouthpiece by any stretch. In fact, many Holy Voices resent their deities at times, feeling that their god has placed too much responsibility on their mortal shoulders.

Holy Voices are seperate entities of their church, and often feel as if their powers and obligations override those of their god's church. In fact, subtle struggles between Holy Voices and church leaders occur all too often, with Holy Voices often pursuing a more active (and typically a little less "realistic") pursuit of their deity's goals on the material plane.

Holy Voices have always remained "behind the scenes", quietly pursuing their patron god's agenda. Hey are the brave knights of Hyrag who fight lone battles against a horde of orcs, or the noble warriors of Zephos who seek to bring peace to the dying on a battlefield, regardless of personal cost.

Curiously, Halina has never had a Holy Voice known to be connected to her.

Holy Voices are typically known only to senior members of the church; lay folk simply regard Holy Voices as lone followers of a deity.

Hit Die: d8

Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks
Feat: Extra Turning, Iron Will
Special: Lay on Hands
Language: Celestial


Class Skills
The Holy Voice's Class skills are Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.

Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier

Code:
Table:  Holy Voice
Level    BAB    Fort    Ref    Will    Special
1         +1     +2       +0     +0     Paladin Spells, Lay On Hands, Fearless Aura
2         +2     +3       +0     +0     Extra Domain
3         +3     +3       +1     +1     Morale Aura
4         +4     +4       +1     +1     Voice's Wrath
5         +5     +4       +1     +1     Healing Aura

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: If the character is not already proficient, he receives proficiency in his deity's favoured weapon.

Paladin Spells: The character continues to gain spells as a paladin. Holy Voice levels count as paladin levels for determing the number of spells a paladin can cast per day, caster level, etc. However, Holy Voice levels do not improve upon the number of times per week a Paladin can cast Remove Disease, a Paladin's Smite Attack, Paladin's Mount, or Turning Undead.

Lay on HandsHoly Voicelevels stack with paladins when determining the amount of hit points healed by the lay on hands ability.

Extra Domain: At 2nd level, the Holy Voice can select one domain granted by his deity. He gains one additional spell slot for each paladin spell level he has access to; this spell must be taken from this extra domain. Thus, a 5th level Paladin/2nd Level Holy Voice with the Healing Domain could cast Cure Light Wounds as a bonus Domain spell.
However, the Holy Voice does not benefit from the regular domain ability.
If the character already has domain spells (such as if he were a cleric), this bonus stacks with the Cleric's existing domains.

Fearless Aura: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts as a standard action, the Holy Voice projects an aura that calms his allies. For a number of rounds equal to his Holy Voice level plus his charisma modifier, all allies that remain within 20 feet of the Holy Voice are immune to all fear effects.
Note that allies within the aura are immune to further fear effects; any fear effects that they suffered before the aura was activated still remain.

Morale Aura: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts for the day as a standard action, the Holy Voice projects an aura that invigors his allies. All allies that remain within 30 feet of the Holy Voice receive a +1 morale bonus on melee attack rolls and damage rolls. This ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to the character's Holy Voice level plus his charisma modifier.

Voice's Wrath: By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts, the Holy Voice can make a single attack infused with a little bit of divine essence. He spends the Turn undead attempt as part of making a standard attack.
The Voice's Wrath attack is considered to be made by a Good weapon, for purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction. It has a +4 bonus to attack, and deals a number of points of extra damage equal to the Holy Voice's class level.
In addition, the attack deals +1d6 damage against Evil creatures.
A character cannot activate Voice's Wrath any round in which he is also making a smite attack.

Healing Aura: At 5th level, the Holy Voice is able to heal nearby allies. By spending one of his daily turn undead attempts as a free action, the Holy Voice can use his Lay on Hands ability on any willing target within 20 feet. Lay on Hands can be used as normal, with the exception that the Holy Voice does not need to physically lay hands on the target.
The Holy Voice can, if he so chooses, heal multiple targets with this ability, splitting up points from his Lay on Hands ability among all eligible targets.


Note: Holy Voice levels do not count as taking levels in another class, for purposes of a Paladin's multi-class restrictions. A 5th level Paladin/2nd Level Holy Voice can freely multi-class between both. Taking levels in other classes (such as fighter) still counts as multi-classing, and thus prevents taking levels in the Paladin class.
[/sblock]

There, added Iron Will as a feat, and further clarified the multi-classing.
Hmm, I agree with you that Iron Will seems a bit forced / makes less sense as a prereq. It's also (since LEW only has core feats + a few others, so we don't have the power creep of some of the amazingly powerful Paladin feats in later books) an excellent feat for a full BAB character, though admittedly Paladins need it somewhat less due to Divine Grace. What about instead of the feat, adding in a req of 5 Diplomacy ranks, since these guys are important voices for their deity?

I will take away my NO vote, and after you think about that last point, I'll also change to Yes.
 

Wik

First Post
Sure. You know what, I was going to mention that there is a huge skill drain on these guys, but really, there isn't. And, really, Diplomacy benefits me more than Iron Will anyways (since Paladins really don't need that +2, Galwynn needs some feats!). Consider it done.

PS. Change made on the first page - the "actual" copy.
 

Trouvere

Explorer
Rystil Arden said:
What about instead of the feat, adding in a req of 5 Diplomacy ranks, since these guys are important voices for their deity?
Pushes back an Int 8 human or an Int 10 anyone-else Paladin's earliest entry to level 8, unless they do something silly like start as Cloistered Cleric. No bad thing.
 

Remove ads

Top