Psions are Broken

[Jin Chi]

I've been playing a Fighter/Psion for the past few months and it is becoming increasingly clear to me that they underpowered the Psion class.

Compared to a Sorceror or Wizard of the same level (lets say 8th), the Psion is woefully inadequate.

8th Level Psion: 6 0 level, 4 1st level, 3 2nd level, 2 3rd level and
1 4th level "powers" known. Castable at will up to the 27 power point limit (3 4th level powers = 27 power points).

8th Level Wizard: Knows an infinite number of spells. Can cast 4 0 level, 4 1st level, 3 2nd level, 3 3rd level, and 2 4th level spells
per day.

8th Level Sorceror: Knows 8 0 Level, 5 1st Level, 3 2nd Level, 2 3rd Level, and 1 4th Level spells. Can cast 6 0 level, 6 1st Level, 6 2nd level, 5 3rd Level and 3 4th Level spells per day.

So what DO Psionics get to make up for this obvious lack of spell
power?

They get Psionic attacks and defenses.

These are powers designed to combat other Psionic characters and creatures. They do 1d2 Int, 1d4 Dex, 1d2 Str, 2d4 Wis and 1d4 Cha temporary damage. (Costing 1,3,3,5, and 9 power points per use). The last is a 60' cone.

Against non-psionics these abilities do stun damage instead (and the non-psionics get an average of +8 to their will saves -- good luck trying to stun a wizard.) Given this, the existence of these
abilities is actually a DETRIMENT to the burgeoning Psi. Not only are their powers useless against most everyone, but now they've exposed their brains to the cruel Psionic world. (gee thanks.)

I'm looking for some solutions. The first (and most
obvious) is allowing the Psionic attacks to do their temporary
ability drains (in addition to the stunning) to Non-Psionicists. They
should still get the +8 to the save.

I think more power points is probably also a good way to bring them back into balance. To cast the same number of spells as the same level Sorceror, the Psion would need 76 (!) Power Points. Quite a difference from the 27 they get.

Another possible way to bring this class in line with the others is
increasing the number of powers they get.

I think the best bet is a combination of all 3.

I hadn't even realized how huge the disparity was until writing the above. This really needs fixing.

What do other people think / what have you done to balance out this class?

Jaime

 

[Crothian]

Nothing. Never noticed any problem with it. The ability to use the power points for many, many low level abilities or a few high is highly underrated. Also, the power to stun is better then draining a few attribute points.

Have you seen the suggested improvements? I can't recall what product it's in, one of the players has it. It basically increases the number of points they get per level. We were going to use it in the next game, but no one went in the psion direction.

 

[Thanee]

Psions have many other advantages.

No spell components, casting (manifesting) powers in armour, decent healing powers, 4 skill points per level, Mind Blast , etc.

They surely do not possess the raw power of the arcane spellcasters, but they have other advantages to even things out.

If you don't think so, play a Sorcerer!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dougal DeKree]

...

...and you overlooked the biggest advantage: DC is not 10 standard but a d20, which averages to a 10.5 and can help you make the opponent need a Save that is 10(!) higher than that of an equal mage.

BUT i agree with you, a Psio has too few Powerpoints. What Crothian meant is the book "If thought could kill" i guess and there is a better PP-Development system.

Dougal DeKree, retired Gnomish Illusionist

 

[Plane Sailing]

IMC I axed the psionic combat rules which I've always hated in every incarnation anyway

IMO the psionic combat is more of a problem for the psion than a benefit. Mind Blast becomes a 5th level telepathy power, with an appropriate DC.

This went a long way to balancing the psion.

You might care to take a look at Bruce Cordells subsequent ideas for handling psions, over on http://www.MonteCook.com/ the PDF adventure "if thoughts could kill" has some variant rules which mostly help psions. He has also redone the psionic prestige classes as a free PDF download so that they use the "+1 Caster Level" kind of advancement (which hadn't been thought of at the time the PsiHB was written)

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another psion benefit - instant metapsionics on the fly. Don't bother with the maximise power though, because it most definitely ISN'T worth it!

Cheers

 

[green slime]

That is some wimp-ass psion, with no bonus power points...

What's he going to do nerf them to deaf with Float?

At 8th level, with a mere 16 Stat in his prime ability score, he gains 9 additional power points. So 9+27 = 36.

Which is:
1) 4 Mindblasts...
(enough to guarantee the party will win the battle against most thinking foes. Standing around stunned when facing a 8th level fighter will get you killed in short order)
OR
2) Inertial barrier 5 times per day, at NO cost in material components
(sor/wiz pays 250 gp per casting of stoneskin)...
OR
3) Charm Monster 7 times per day, creating a little army of his own, they tag along for 8 days...
(Charm Monster is a 4th level spell for wizards, so they could only cast this spell 3 times per day, Sorcerer 4 times per day, IF they have 18 Int...)
4) Extended Animal Afinity on all 6 Stats, lasting for 16 hours with 6 power points left.
(A 8th level sorcerer COULD do this, but then he won't know any other high level spells!)
5) Psions can heal themselves, something a wiz/sor finds VERY difficult.

 

[Mordax_sighs]

Hrm. IMC:

- I threw out Psionic Combat, since it's a silly liability. Mind Blast is a power (see above posters who did this).

- I gave Psions Bonus Feats, same as Wizards get.

The rest...well, I'd like if they got more power points per day, and I don't like how Psions have to be good at a *lot* of different stats for their powers. However, I don't think these things are huge issues.

Something else that helps, and hasn't been mentioned yet, are Psionic Feats. I know people who prefer Psychic characters to Sorcerer multiclasses because they want Up The Walls.

 

[Darkness8Me]

Psions have thier advantages, but I'd have to say that they aren't as powerful as other spellcasters in terms of raw power.

Some of things I've found that help improve the class (IMO) are:

If Thoughts Could Kill - Bruce Cordell
Creature Capacitor feat
Variant Power Progression
Variant Prestige Classes (especially the metamind, which went from fairly crappy to definately useable)

Free online at WoTC
Fortify Power and Overpower feats
Reshape Mind feat (originally from Dragon magazine)

 

[RigaMortus]

Against non-psionics these abilities do stun damage instead (and the non-psionics get an average of +8 to their will saves -- good luck trying to stun a wizard.) Given this, the existence of these
abilities is actually a DETRIMENT to the burgeoning Psi. Not only are their powers useless against most everyone, but now they've exposed their brains to the cruel Psionic world. (gee thanks.)

Actually Mindblast, the only Psionic Attack worth using IMO, gives a -4 to their save. But yeah, all the other ones give +8 or +9, but only stun 1 person and for not nearly as long as Mindblast does.