Races and Classes--I has it!

[Lurks-no-More]

Overall, that sounds great! I'll have to consider getting the actual book when it shows up here...

 

[ogre]

Well, I just preordered it based on these reviews and insight. Thanks!

 

[eve_of_dante]

Someone was asking about Rogues:

'extra specialization... stealthy rogues can stay hidden and deliver devastating attacks from the shadows. Mobile rogues jump and climb across the battlefield... tricky rogues use words as weapons'
'capable of delivering more damage to a target than many other characters'
'can use their skills more effectively than other classes and can move in ways utterly impossible for other classes'
'at the highest end of the power list come difficult maneuvers that incorporate multiple attacks and tactical movement'
'a rogue with a high int. gains a flat bonus to all trained skill checks'
follow up attacks do extra damage after sucessful attacks, and do 'major penalties' to the target.

 

[Atlatl Jones]

Remember that the way it's described, it'll use a FEAT to "multiclass." And the non-multiclass feats, we have been told, are "general bonuses," not powers, which are pretty much reserved for class abilities. This means that you can't become a useless character by being a "balanced" (read: mediocre) mix of two classes. You ARE one class, and CANNOT miss out on your class powers. This means you will ALWAYS be good at some role - you will just also be good at *another* role, if you take the cross-training feats, and only lose out on some general bonus like "Alertness." And, with what we've found out on this thread about Paragon Paths, it seems like if you really want a balanced two-class hybrid, there'll be worthwhile Paths that will let you find your niche.

I think I've been assuming that a character with those feats would have to "swap out" some of his class powers for the other class's powers, like a 3e wizard being allowed to prepare a half dozen cleric spells in his wizard spell slots. That definitely may not be the case.

 

[Oldtimer]

Awesome stuff, guys. Can I ask where you found the copies? I've been circling through my local FLGSs and Borders since Tuesday, and I haven't sniffed a peek yet.

I picked it up at my FLGS last Tuesday on my way home from work. I'm glad I didn't have anything important to do that particular night - must have gotten into bed around three in the morning.

 

[The Cardinal]

Unless they decide to republish... The Primal Order!!! dum dum dum!!!

...in which case I would turn into a raving 4e fanboy...

 

[Nikosandros]

Yeah. I'm getting that impression too. It's not that you can multi-class really, but you can kind of smear the border between your class and another one.

It's... odd.

One the one hand it seems to have an aspect of "Classes are similar enough that you don't need to actually take levels in another class to have some functional use of their powers." On the other hand they also seem to be saying that your role is so important that they are preventing you from screwing it up by diluteing your core focus too much. On the gripping hand... the gripping hand is still gropeing in the dark. More data is needed.

I'm fairly sure that the designers have talked somewhere about actual multi classing. Those feats might be an extra option.

 

[Najo]

Puts down beer, takes off beanie, t-shirt, jeans. Puts on suit, tie, cap-toe shoes and thinks... no sorry go buy the book.

Dragon may have something in an article next week. I can't sanction our own guys getting scooped.

Scott,

I thought the release date was the 18th? When are the FLGS here in the states getting them?

 

[Kaodi]

I think that one concern might be that unless racial talents are awarded differently, that racial feats and multiclass feats would be competing for limited space. For instance, if I wanted to play an Eladrin Wizard with a bunch of Warlord abilities, would this come at the price of me having a few of the cool Eladrin abilities? (Under this theorized single class system of course.)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think that one concern might be that unless racial talents are awarded differently, that racial feats and multiclass feats would be competing for limited space. For instance, if I wanted to play an Eladrin Wizard with a bunch of Warlord abilities, would this come at the price of me having a few of the cool Eladrin abilities? (Under this theorized single class system of course.)

Another question might be - how bad can that be? At some point, you have to decide your focus. In 3rd edition, if you wanted to play an LA races, you basically had to face a similar decision - do I want class abilities are racial abilities? (But in 3rd edition, it too often worked bad, because some of these abilities contained core aspects like BAB, Saves or Hit points and maybe most notably spell progression).
It might be a problem (or at least a little "sad") if the base racial abilities don't really affect the uniqueness of the character in the long run without this feats...