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Remind me again why I should like the PHB II?
- Thread starter johnnype
- Start date
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Banshee16 said:
I haven't seen those, but I'm pretty sure if they've got mind control abilities and aren't spellcasters that I won't like them.
Funky still needs to match flavor.
Agent Oracle
First Post
flavor matches. Knights are designed to single out an enemy and battle it honorably.
And it's not really "suggestion-level" mind control. The enemy only has to show preference in fighting the knight, it's free to still attack other targets. I'll give you an example.
Fighting Challenge:
A choker has the party thief in his grip, and is crushing. the knight challenges the choker from across the battlefield. The choker recognizes the challenge, and fails it's will save, of course, the choker can still give that rogue one more squeeze, for good measure. Or two... or just drag the little halfling along to the fight. It's all fair. He'd prefer to be fighting the knight, but this darn rogue is just conveniently in his grip...
Suggestion:
Wizard says "Drop the rogue and come to me."
The choker hears, and drops the rogue, and comes to the wizard.
See? It's all in the details of the wording of the ability. As a GM who has played over all four of the classes from the PHBII, that's how it's best to work with it.
And it's not really "suggestion-level" mind control. The enemy only has to show preference in fighting the knight, it's free to still attack other targets. I'll give you an example.
Fighting Challenge:
A choker has the party thief in his grip, and is crushing. the knight challenges the choker from across the battlefield. The choker recognizes the challenge, and fails it's will save, of course, the choker can still give that rogue one more squeeze, for good measure. Or two... or just drag the little halfling along to the fight. It's all fair. He'd prefer to be fighting the knight, but this darn rogue is just conveniently in his grip...
Suggestion:
Wizard says "Drop the rogue and come to me."
The choker hears, and drops the rogue, and comes to the wizard.
See? It's all in the details of the wording of the ability. As a GM who has played over all four of the classes from the PHBII, that's how it's best to work with it.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Best parts to my eye: Retraining rules - what can I say? I wish that they had been in the original Players Handbook, they allow a character to not only grow but to change his focus as he gains experience. It means that bad or only temporarily convenient choices can be changed as time marches on. I have ported this into my other D20 games as well.
Afilliations - Gives reason for the PCs to enter into my webs of intrigue! Bwa ha ha ha... errr... *cough* for the PCs to seek out alliances and societies.
Some of the feats dealing with familairs are also jim dandy.
The Auld Grump
Afilliations - Gives reason for the PCs to enter into my webs of intrigue! Bwa ha ha ha... errr... *cough* for the PCs to seek out alliances and societies.
Some of the feats dealing with familairs are also jim dandy.
The Auld Grump
Olaf the Stout
Hero
TheAuldGrump said:
I can't comment too much since I don't own the PHB II but from what I have heard about the Retraining rules it seems like it could be a power gamer's delight. Pick things that are more powerful at lower levels and then swap them out for things that work better at higher levels.
How do they explain how a character magically changes his levels and abilities? What penalties, if any, are there for retraining?
Olaf the Stout
(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Nope....none of that. Green Ronin's Cavalier has the d12's, Fighter BAB, good fort and will saves, better skill points and skills (ie. Diplomacy), a very small number of fighter feats that are pre-selected, kind of like with the ranger, except they're knightly, mounted combat style feats, leadership abilities, and a rising bonus to hit with some of his weapons (ie. lance, sword) that increases as he goes up in level.
Not a single Su ability in there.
I'm sure you can find the book on the cheap. I got it from Green Ronin on special last year, and it's got some cool stuff in it. Also has a social class system so characters can be born peasants, or nobility, or whatever, and a depiction of what effects birth station has, various types of mounts, a bunch of knightly feats, rules for tournaments, etc.
Banshee
Olaf the Stout said:
Well, there's the ordinary "well, I retrain, and switch from a highly trained, lethal footsoldier, to an earth-shaking archmage" by swapping out my old class for the new, from what I understand.
That's the cheesy, powergamer way.
There's also some magic items and locations they detail which "transform" characters.....I think it's supposed to be "random", but in fact, gives the DM the leeway to switch the character's type. I think you can switch class, race, gender, alignment etc.
Banshee
Last edited:
FireLance
Legend
You speak as if powergaming was a bad thingOlaf the Stout said:
. But yes, it does help people make more efficient characters. There are no trade-offs or penalties, and the only limitation is that you can change only one thing at each level. PCs that are allowed to use the retraining rules are going to be better optimized than more static PCs, but will still be relatively balanced compared to say, PCs in campaigns where the DM decides to give everyone one feat at every level instead of one feat per three levels.Feats, skills and choice of class features are easy to change. Race, class and ability scores are more difficult and require the character to go on a special quest to (literally) magically change them. In our campaign, we only allow changing of feats, skills and class features. I could make some nice-sounding argument about how this helps to portray the organic growth of the PC, but really, we're just all powergamers at heart
.johnnype said:
While I really like the feats and some of the classes (duskblade & beguiler I'm looking at you), my favorite section by far is the variant class features. I really like being able to swap out abilities that are underused in a particular campaign with something that is more useful. Giving up something you don't use for something you do use...what's not to like about that? Anyway, I would suggest you take a second look at the variant class features again and see if you can find a reason to spend more time with the PHBII.
The book separates "retraining" and "rebuilding."Olaf the Stout said:
Retraining lets you swap out some of the choices you made at earlier levels: feats, skills (-4 ranks, +4 skill points), class feature, spell selection, language. You can change one thing every time you take a new level. This reflects the way that real people forget old stuff and learn new things. The new choice has to be one you could have taken at the lower level - so you can't swap out your Dodge feat for Weapon Specialization, unless you were a 4th level fighter when you took Dodge.
Rebuilding is basically creating a new character that's somewhat similar to the old one. It's a far more involved process, can only be done in certain places of power, and requires questing and stuff.
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