Request: Move the Optimization Section back into the General 5e Section

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Yeah, the thing that's really doing it is the content transfer from WotC - when we're posting a dozen or so new items in quick succession, the 5E forum ends up having a timespan measured in just a few hours.

We'll look at forum structure again after the WotC boards close, but I agree there's little purpose in doing it right now. Things are too chaotic.
 

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steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
OK, I surrender! Displaying all the optimization and house rule threads in the General forum during the WOTC Message Board transition of threads is a bit of a disaster. The General board is becoming unusable as 3e, 4e, and 5e character builds, optimizations, house rules, and other general threads are moved over and then they all get displayed in the general 5e forum (though half are not even 5e threads).

I think maybe turn it off...make it the way it was before, for now, until we can sort out how the forums will be split?

Really? Ya think? Nice of you to come around, Mistwell.

Also, if "we" are getting to "sort out how the forums will be split," I [and every other member of the forums] will await our notification of the beginning of that conversation with great anticipation.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Mistwell needed another thread about this? Really?

This is the earliest thread on this topic, not "another" thread. I think you are confused about that poll - which was not originally posted in this section of the forums (it was moved here), and which came well after this thread.

Really? Ya think? Nice of you to come around, Mistwell.

My opinion was pre-WOTC board shut down, and as Morrus notes the problem is the transferring of those threads (and showing 4e and 3e threads in the 5e forum, which was never something I or anyone else advocated).

Also, if "we" are getting to "sort out how the forums will be split," I [and every other member of the forums] will await our notification of the beginning of that conversation with great anticipation.

"We" is simply "EN World, as decided by those who run it". I am just a fan cheering for my team; my team being EN World. Sort of like when I am at a Los Angeles Clippers game and I say "We're going to have to figure out how to deal with Curry" I don't mean literally *I* have to figure it out, I mean the team. Obviously Morrus decides these things, not you and I (though he may choose to consider our opinions).

But, I suspect you knew that and decided personal snark directed at me was appropriate because you disagree with my position? If that is the case, I disagree. No reason to make this personal about me, and it's not persuasive. I get it, we disagree about this topic. Let's just talk about that topic.
 
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steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
My opinion was pre-WOTC board shut down, and as Morrus notes the problem is the transferring of those threads (and showing 4e and 3e threads in the 5e forum, which was never something I or anyone else advocated).

True. He has. But that's not the only problem/not what the majority of people that posted about the change said, was it. But after the WotC shutdown things just got exponentially worse and, thankfully, people started saying so in much higher numbers. But they were all saying the same thing, "We don't like this." "Why is this here?" "Where did this come from?" "We don't like this." Whether we had the extra threads coming over from WotC or not, the sentiments are the same. We just got to see it at a really high volume rate...which, ultimately, I think is to our benefit. Folks didn't want it.

"We" is simply "EN World, as decided by those who run it". I am just a fan cheering for my team; my team being EN World.

That's nice to hold that position. I do not agree that is the case, or you would have been trying to/insisting on making it happen in the face of people saying "We don't want that." So, what team is it you are trying to support? Or do you mean your team is, literally, EN world? Like, you are employed/work for EN world, now? Thus, what the patrons are telling you isn't as important as whatever business concerns you have? But then, i would think, you would have handled this all with private emails. So I'm guessing it's still the former and you're speaking metaphorically.

I don't mean literally *I* have to figure it out, I mean the team. Obviously Morrus decides these things, not you and I (though he may choose to consider our opinions).

Obviously.

But, I suspect you knew that and decided personal snark directed at me was appropriate because you disagree with my position?

No. Not entirely. I felt there was a very real possibility that you would just give it a week or two (or the end of October, was it?) slip a quiet Meta Forum thread (or private email) to engage Morrus directly and make/argue your personal preference/desires...in the face of the position that so obviously outnumbers your own. Expressing my interest in being a part of the conversation was absolutely sincere.

So, there was some definite tongue in cheek. I don't actually expect an invitation. Snarky? Not really, no. The desires of a single poster really should not outweigh the preferences/desires of a larger number of site participants. "The needs of the many...yada yada Spock dying from radiation and everything."

No reason to make this personal about me, and it's not persuasive. I get it, we disagree about this topic. Let's just talk about that topic.

Absolutely. EN World is "our team," to borrow your conceit. Morrus' makes the calls, by all means. We both/all want what's best for everyone here...or I'd be very surprised to be proven otherwise.

From where I'm sitting, that answer to 'What's best for everyone" was obvious to begin with and, has since, been answered quite clearly. Not making it personal in any way, just observing what has been born out by the facts of the past couple of weeks, "what is best for (i.e., wanted by) the most people" is not the position you propose/hold.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
That's nice to hold that position. I do not agree that is the case, or you would have been trying to/insisting on making it happen in the face of people saying "We don't want that."

There is no way I can think of to interpret that statement as anything other than a personal attack. I told you what I meant. You're saying that's not what I meant (IE calling me a liar). You're literally telling me if I meant what I said I meant I would not have mentioned my preference - which is all I did.

So this conversation stops here. I don't know why you insist on making this a personal attack when it's just two different views on a non-personal topic, but I don't have to play that game with you. I tried to discuss it with you, I even conceded we should go back to the way things were at least temporarily, and even in victory you made it a personal attack. Enough. Go be a dick to someone else.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
Hyperbolic nonsense. Telling you I don't agree with your view and see things differently, however sincere your view might be, is not "calling you a liar." Disagreeing with your position is not a "personal attack." Nice try though.

And even IF I were calling you a liar outright, I still don't think that would make me so offended and threatened by someone's opposing view, that I would resort to telling someone, "Go be a dick to someone else." That seems, to me, a disproportionate response.

This conversation most certainly is/can be over. I'm only here because I saw the title of this thread and thought I should take a look at what was going on...since "Move the Optimization Section back into the General 5e Section" is something I REALLY don't want to see... and, it would seem, the bulk of those responding here, on your poll thread (however limited and unusable it might be), and in the 5e discussion "Charop Threads: Something I Wish hadn't come over" thread [which I had NO hand in! Completely independently arose.] are all saying the same/agreeing with me. I won't apologize for having more support for my position.

Sometimes ideas are good. Sometimes ideas are not. Sometimes, they might be good and still not come to pass, for any variety of reasons. Sometimes they're lousy and still happen in the face of massive opposition. This one was ill-advised. C'est la vie.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
OK, cool it, please. You're on the verge of calling each other names over the way a D&D forum is organized.
 

Orlax

First Post
I didn't even know there was a char-op section on this board. Though really in 5e there is hardly a reason for char op boards. I mean you can make some kooky builds in 5e, just to make weird builds, but you don't need the bare optimization you needed to operate in 3x or 4e. Heck in 5e you can make crazy unoptimized characters and still contribute effectively.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I didn't even know there was a char-op section on this board.

Most people don't seem to see it. Which is the main reason this discussion started. By making it a separate forum, in the way it was set up, people didn't even see it to know if it was something they wanted to talk about or not.
 

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