Rogue Inquiry.

[Kristivas]

I played a Rogue 6/Fighter 2, dual-weilding short swords recently as an NPC. Well, reading sneak attack, every attack they score when flanking is supposed to get sneak attack damage. Well, as the PC fighter was battling a cleric, the rogue/fighter managed to get in behind him and on his next turn (yes, he was flanking) scored three hits. One of his swords was a frost short sword. Well, it pretty much looked like this:

First hit [main hand]: 5 (roll) + 1 (strength) + 1 (magical bonus) + 13 (3d6 sneak) + 2 (frost)
Second [off-hand]: 3 (roll) + 1 (magical bonus) + 9 (3d6 sneak)
Third [main]: 2 (roll) + 1 (strength) + 1 (magical bonus) + 16! (3d6 sneak) + 4 (frost)

69! Crack Pow! But, is that right? Do they get sneak attack damage for every time they hit while flanking? I had assumed so by reading the rules, but that seems like a LOT of damage at once.

Needless to say, the Fighter got tore down. He'd already taken quite a bit of a beating from the battle the PCs were currently engaged in. The rogue was a storyline foe that the fighter had embarassed who saw his chance and decided to go in for the kill. The group had to haul the fighter's carcass back for a raise dead, and I got plenty of complaining after the game.

"69 damage from just one round?! That's impossible unless he's an archmage!"

 

[Bastoche]

You did it right. Lesson to learn for the PC: never get flanked when you suspect a rogue is around. If the PCs knew beforehand they were facing a rogue, death was a proper punishment for them. And I say that as a PC, I'm not a DM.

An improved invisible rogue can also sneak attack at every attack.

Oh and BTW, and archmage can do WAY much more than 69 in one round

 

[Vurt]

Well, adding it up, it looks like only 59 to me.

And yes, Fighter/Rogues can dish it out while two-weapon fighting.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[schporto]

Someone's math is off (might be mine). I got 59 damage.

 

[Bastoche]

I get 59 too...

 

[Len]

"69 damage from just one round?! That's impossible unless he's an archmage!"

None of your players have ever seen a fighter with a greatsword?

 

[Bastoche]

None of your players have ever seen a fighter with a greatsword?

Yep. 8th level fighter, assuming 2 hit, 28 damage on average. 38 maximum. That's if he's not specialist nor using power attack. In other words that's about the worst he could do (I assume 18 str at first level, so 20 str. 22 if he's 1/2 orc). If you had specialisation, that an extra +4. +8 if it's greater spec.

If one of those hit is a critical, it goes, on average, to 42 on average. +6 or + 12 for spec and g. spec.

On average, a dual wielding rogue (assuming all attacks are hits) does 52 dam. However, the rogue's bab is about 1 or 2 lower, there's a -2 penality for dual wielding so his probability to hit is lower.

A fighter consistently cause average to high damage while the rogue once in a while does high to very high damage. Assuming the fighter has a full plate or something of the like, the rogue had fairly lucky rolls on that round. Poop happens. If the fighter is at level 6 or less, he was going on something too big... Live (or in this case die) and learn.

 

[Len]

Yep. 8th level fighter, assuming 2 hit, 28 damage on average. 38 maximum. That's if he's not specialist nor using power attack. In other words that's about the worst he could do (I assume 18 str at first level, so 20 str. 22 if he's 1/2 orc). If you had specialisation, that an extra +4. +8 if it's greater spec.

If one of those hit is a critical, it goes, on average, to 42 on average. +6 or + 12 for spec and g. spec.

A greatsword fighter without Power Attack? Never heard of such a thing. And I wasn't talking about average damage. The comment was:

"69 damage from just one round?! That's impossible unless he's an archmage!"

An 8th level fighter with a greatsword certainly can do more than that, in a good round.

 

[Bastoche]

Ahem... I am not disagreeing with you. In fact I' trying to show that a poorly built greatsword fighter can do almost as much as a well built rogue (fighter/rogue) dual wielder... And the dual wielding rogue need one more attack to achieve such results...

A well built fighter could take a -X to hit in order to have the same bab as the rogue and have twice as much damage to deal with it.

 

[Kristivas]

None of your players have ever seen a fighter with a greatsword?

I'd started with new guys, and while they've played a lot of games.. they've played a lot of Low Level Games. They're used to scrapping it when they get past 8 or so.

The point was, I wasn't sure you got sneak attack damage with every attack in a round. Now, I'm all straight. Thank you